Tuesday, June 27, 2006

The Trouble with Thrips

Thrips are tiny winged insects, around 1mm (1/32th of an inch) long.

This is what they look like, life sized (on a leaf, look closely):


And here is what they look like under a microscope



Here's a photo of some thrips that a Morgellons believer found on her skin:


(Compare the one at the bottom left with the one in the previous picture)

Thrips infest plants. A serious infestation can have hundreds, even thousands, of thrips in a plant. Sometimes thrips swarm, they fly, and can land on your skin and bite, which can be painful. They can apparently even create lesions that they can get inside, a condition described as Thysanoptera dermatitis.

So suppose you had a thrips infestation, perhaps just on a houseplant, or perhaps you live in an agricultural area, or you have an orchard. Thrips are tiny (they can easily get through a normal window screen) and very hard to see when they are in the air. If you are closely inspecting your skin, then when the thrips land on your skin, it will be difficult to see where they came from. If you have a fertile imagination, it might look like they have emerged from your unbroken skin.

Now within the Morgellons community, there are mixed opinions as to the involvements of insects in the disease. The opinions fall thusly:

1) There are no insects involved with Morgellons, and people should stop talking about them.
2) Insects are not part of Morgellons, but it suppresses your immune system enough to allow insects to nest in your skin.
3) Morgellons is an insect infestation, the insects either create the fibers, or use clothing fibers to create cocoons, and that's what we should talk about
4) Insects are part of the Morgellons syndrome, but we should not talk about it, as it will get us labeled as suffering from Delusions of Parasitosis.

In its doctor approved "Case Definition", the Morgellons Research Foundation says:
"The sensations are at times related to the presence of easily seen insects"

On Lymebusters (the online forum that the MRF recommends), the thread entitled "Morgellons, (collembola?)" sums up the every shifting attitudes of some Morgellons believers.

Orion***
It distresses me every time that morgellons is referanced to insects --such as insects crawling out of the body---this tangent can really confuse those who are trying to understand the morgellon syndrom..I have NEVER, in any remote way, made any observance of bugs-flies-etc exiting my body or crawling underneath my skin...

Patti
The insect theory can be harmful to us if not presented in the correct manner. I believe there is an indirect connection, phermonally speaking [...]

Questionhair
Those that have the insects hatching are suffering a very bad aspect of this - they need so much support and especially to be believed and not rejected.

Patti
We never told anyone they couldn't talk about it and I apologize again if it sounded that way. We just didn't want people to place the main emphasis of this disease's symptoms on that aspect of it, since that is where our skeptics are getting their ammunition to dismiss us.

Questionhair
But to disarm skeptics, any mention of insects should include the fungal / various causes aspect. Any skeptic that can't figure out that insects and fungus can be connected is A) not too bright B) has an agenda/sponsor or C) works at UoG

Orion***
I wish to clarify my stance--no doubt that insects can lay eggs and hatch out of the hide-skin-of many animals---

H
My theroey is that the Morg attracts other parrasites. I have personally whatched a fly hatch and fly out of my leg and watched a white furry bug eat its way into my heal,

Orion***
We all have fibers--etc=====or defined as morgellons,some have this manifestation others some other presentation..we can not define it down to say morgellons is caused by this or that---this is what I see--That is what you see--but we all see fibers, right?SOO, I ask, why are the fibers created by so many different things?

Here's how one of the administrators of Lymebusters (who has posted his own photos of Thrips) explains his own pro-insect belief, and the diversity of what people are seeing.

Anthill
[...]every time I would get bit by something in the spot where I got bit there would be a fuzzball most of the time they were the color of the article of clothing in the area that that I found the fuzzball in If I was wearing white socks they would be white or if I had something red or blue the fuzzball would be likewise I cant speak for my comrade cult members but I think that the critters that are responsible gather the fibers around them like a cocoon
[...]
And I am not saying that we all have the same thing but there is a common denominator that we all have --and that is Doctors are giving us all a bogus diagnosis that we are stuck with so we unite under the same banner to fight it

(Note that Anthill is just joking here, when referring to the "cult", he's referring to another recent post)

So what is the problem with Thrips?

The problem is the assumption, almost the dogma, amongst Morgellons believers, that they all have the same "thing". That there is some new pathogen that they all are infected with that causes all of their symptoms. Any new symptom that someone professes to have gets included in the long list of symptoms that are allowed under Morgellons. Anything too outrageous or unique gets explained as a product of a suppressed immune system. Any mental issues get explained as neurological effects of "this disease".

The problem with that is that they obviously don't all have the same thing. They have a wide range of symptoms. The one thing they supposedly have in common, the fibers, vary as much as the symptoms. On the question of insects - some have them, and some don't. Again, some believers explain this as the insects taking advantage of a compromised immune system. But you can explain anything as the result of a compromised immune system.

The trouble with Thrips is that believers unquestioningly accepted that tiny bugs can be hatched in their adult form directly through your skin, if you have Morgellons. If you have Morgellons almost anything can be accepted, no matter how outrageous. The key thing many Morgellons believers want is "to be believed". By being part of a community that wants to be believed, they support each other, and hence they believe each other, easily glossing over all inconsistencies.

Unfortunately, by believing everyone and everything, some of them abdicate reason, and this gets in the way of them receiving appropriate treatment for their very real health issues.

68 Comments:

At 10:06 PM, Blogger Aherah said...

Speaking of bugs, what's up with this chick http://www.cdfound.to.it/html/ecto_col.htm

Or this report
http://www.headlice.org/report/research/jnyes.pdf

Please dispute these as well Margie. The bug thing that some people with Morgellons believe does freak me out, as I've said before. Nonetheless, the mind wants to put a face on the feeling, and the face is always that of a bug. Even the doctors commonly diagnose these symptoms as scabies or lice, but the treatments don't alleviate the sensations.

ah

 
At 10:15 PM, Blogger guest518 said...

the 2nd link has been debunked by doctors already.

marg and smiley, please refer to this link....the ending parts of the page do a good job at disputing the 2 link in the previous post.

it is a long read, but a good one.

http://www.geocities.com/~fransjanssens/publicat/sidney.htm#Altschuler2004

 
At 10:44 PM, Blogger Margellons said...

Aherah, Thrips are not Collembola, your first link does not seem particularly authoritative, and the second link has been debunked several times (you need only look at the photos to debunk it yourself).

Obviously there are parasitic insects that burrow into the skin. Scabies being an excellent example.

But what are you saying? You don't believe that insects are involved, but you still want to defend the possibility that they might be?

Are you saying that the insect people are simply rationalizing their symptoms as an insect infestation?

Or are you saying the people with insects have something different from what you have?

 
At 10:44 PM, Blogger Aherah said...

Whew...so glad that's been taken care of. I noticed that in the article above, it talks of Amin's research which, incidentally, includes lots and lots of bugs. Yuck! I'm no fan of Amin either, but why are we always coming back to bugs when anyone starts to take a closer look?

ah

 
At 10:52 PM, Blogger Margellons said...

Aherah, do you think it's possible that people could be near a small swarm of thrips, have them land on their skin, and them mistakenly assume that the thrips had emerged from their skin, and were in fact a parasitic infestation that was causing all of their illness?

 
At 10:52 PM, Blogger Aherah said...

What am I saying you ask? I believe I wasn't saying anything, I was questioning. Am I the only one that notices the recurrence of the bug theme when talking about Morgellons? Do I believe it is a bug? I dunno. I try to convince myself that it isn't because the thought is so repulsive. Why do you ask me to tell you what I think Morgellons is--I thought we covered that topic. All I know is that it is real. Knowing this is the case, I pay attention to recurrent themes, like bugs. Maybe they'll provide a clue, maybe not. Don't scientists look for recurrent themes too? Shouldn't we be paying attention to anomalies that keep popping up? I wonder too what was going on with that Collembola study. Did someone actually place dead bugs in the specimins? What could their motivation have been? It seems odd to me, maybe not to you.

ah

 
At 10:58 PM, Blogger Margellons said...

Which study? In the first one there was just a story about one woman, and it looked more like a personal web page than a scientific paper.

In the second one, they did not find any Collembola, they just enhanced sections of the images that looked a bit like collembola, selectivly changing the contrast to make it look more like collemebola.

Sadly no more scientific than the work of Dr. Masuru Emoto.

 
At 11:01 PM, Blogger Aherah said...

"Aherah, do you think it's possible that people could be near a small swarm of thrips, have them land on their skin, and them mistakenly assume that the thrips had emerged from their skin, and were in fact a parasitic infestation that was causing all of their illness?"

Absolutely. I have been guilty of this, for about an hour (after remembering "someone's" posts about bugs popping out of their skin). Then I slapped myself back into the reality I can deal with, which doesn't include bug popping. You see, among the sensations I feel is something I call snap, crackle, pop like rice crispies. I have felt this on my legs often over many years, I ignored it. A year and a half ago (when this thing was bad), I felt it on my scalp--not so easy to ignore, I'll tell ya. Yes, it felt like bugs, but I understand that a sensation can be different from the reality of a situation. I didn't have lice, so what was it? Who knows. My scalp has been terribly itchy ever since. Do you know why headlice.org led the way in attempting research? Because too many people with the sensations I felt had been contacting them. It feels like bugs, no matter which ones you want to talk about.

ah

 
At 11:09 PM, Blogger Margellons said...

Itching feels like bugs - I itch a little all the time, and it feels like bugs, sometimes it is bugs.

Aherah, have your read the Best Practices, on Pruritus? I know it's long, but trust me it's fascinating.

If you do take the time to read it, I'd be interested in hearing how your experience has differed from this.

 
At 11:26 PM, Blogger Aherah said...

"If you do take the time to read it, I'd be interested in hearing how your experience has differed from this."

I'm not quite sure what you mean.

I have no lesions to show anybody, which indicates to doctors that this is not a skin issue. I'm obviously having an immune response to something (swelling,etc.) but the doctors couldn't figure it out in the brief allergy testing that was done. My experience has been that they don't really want to do much testing of anything. I don't know enough about medical conditions to know what to tell them to test for. I'm left with no choice but to figure it out for myself and treat myself. Then people like you write blogs about people like me. The funny thing is, I know lots of people who don't have Morgellons, but have the same experience with/negative opinion of their doctors.

ah

 
At 12:14 AM, Blogger guest518 said...

i just want to copy-paste the most important part of my link above because i feel its important when talking about springtails (collembola).

-------

Almost all of the validated cases of human infestations (by springtails) have involved Collembola in head hair. In most but not all of these cases the people involved have been associated with horses and it has been suggested (but never proven) that fungi associated with horses were growing on the hair and the Collembola were feeding on these. In all these cases the group involved was a member of the family Entomobryidae. In many but not all cases the infestation has been associated with mild to severe pruritis. There has been a single clearly validated case of a biologist, who had been actively aspirating Collembola in the arctic, getting an infestation of Collembola in his nasal passages (Hurd, 1954:814). Getting rid of these infestations has often proven to be very difficult.
In all of the cases mentioned above large numbers of active Collembola were seen and could easily be collected. The nasal passage infestation became apparent when Collembola appeared abundantly in the discharge of nose blowing. If live Collembola are involved in the various infestations than these should be visible to the naked eye on the surface.
There is no recorded case of a Collembola burrowing in anything anywhere or found imbedded in any tissue. Indeed they are morphologically and physiologically ill suited for this. Their respiration requires gaseous exchange through the cuticle, impossible if surrounded by a tissue. If there were forms burrowing in human tissue they should be highly specialised in form, such as having a narrow, elongated wormlike body with strongly reduced eyes, antennae, limbs and furcula and having highly modified mouthparts for byting through human skin and underlying tissue. Entirely different from the entomobryid surface forms, having well developed eyes, limbs and long furcula, as reported by Altschuler et al., 2004:87-95. Collembola that live in the soil are limited to the interstices of the soil between soil grains, those living on plants entirely to the surfaces. Where clays have very small spaces between grains, Collembola do not occur. Those living elsewhere are found only in cavities. The one case of an animal commensal lives with hermit crabs in the spaces between the animal and the adopted shell. It is highly morphologically specialised for this habitat and belongs to a very distinct genus and family. Thus if Collembola were in fact the cause of a crawling sensation on the skin they should be on the surface, visible to the naked eye and collectible. Since the specimens or putative fragments as reported by Altschuler et al., 2004:87-95 appear to be Entomobryidae or Isotomidae this is particularly true.

It is possible that there is an allergic reaction to Collembola tissue or integument on the part of some people which produces the crawling-on-skin irritation symptoms. If so that would be readily testable by smearing Collembola on small unaffected sections of skin of people known to be sensitive to the disease and seeing if there is a response. One record of a case of pruritis from the scales of the common Old World household Collembola - Seira domestica is known (Mertens in Christiansen, 1998 in 2001:in litt.).

 
At 12:30 AM, Blogger Smileykins said...

I know that I said I wouldn't bring my experience up anymore, Margellons, but since our gal continues being haunted, and this is on the topic she fears, I pose a question, for us all to examine for her.

Abhorah knew at the time, I spoke in hindsight on Lymebusters. I'd said upon my introduction, directly to her, that I'd been ill with the same symptoms as this "morgellons disease" 3 years prior, and figured it out for myself.....I had hallucinated, from being so physically ill.

She said, "No, it's a real disease, and we all have it, and you've come to the right place."

Can anyone explain to her that she is more fearful that I knew, on my own, without seeking a doctor, that I had delusional parasitosis for a couple of months (fibers, and specks, and all the rest), than she is of thinking I really had bugs? She refuses to face it, insisting that I had live bugs.
Or IS that what she's been doing?

There was no way of my explaining that on the morgie board. Tall Cotton and I hung out in that subculture trying the best we knew how to communicate with them, as we reflected, stopping short of the telling of DOP.

But this woman was the first I'd told that it was all hallucination. She is terrified to read my truth, to clear up her confusion. So, why, if we are to believe her, IS she? She keeps thinking we're "frauds".

 
At 5:25 AM, Blogger Smileykins said...

Also, has any morgie person posted pictures of their bug "hatchings" as they're in progress, or have they all already exited?

If phobias of bugs were the problem, they sure couldn't handle the bugs they get pictures of.

Can such persons that have been given their DOP diagnoses, be like this lady, thinking she surely isn't having a delusion, because she would know it?

 
At 7:42 AM, Blogger Tall Cotton said...

I've heard a lot of the Morgellons believers say, "I'm not saying that you have the same thing that I do", but at the same time, they all claim to have Morgellons. And according to their own testimonials, they all do have some of the symptoms that lie within the broad scope of its case definition. It doesn't seem to matter to them how many "extra" symptoms a person has, unless it's delusions or anything that would hint of it. But to be a full fledged Morgellons victim, it is becomming more and more of a requirement, it seems, that one has "fibers", preferably colored ones Of course, there are a variety of "fiber manifestations".

I agree that they don't all have the same thing, and I believe that this opinion is based on strong evidence. But I do believe that some of the Morgies may be experiencing the effects of toxic poisoning. They have a wide range of symptoms, but they do often claim to have lesions that are ongoing. Even if this is the case, it doesn't necessarily make Morgellons a disease, or anything new. Toxicity can come from a variety of sources and/or general kidney disfunction. When the toxic load it too high, more of the toxins will be expelled through the skin. Some of these individuals may be suffering from metal posioning or cutaneous lyme disease, and it may account for the toxins.

Some of the Morgellons believers have already been diagnosed with eczema, sarcoidosis, lyme disease, and other well established diseases and disorders. The reported common thread appears to be the presence of fibers. But some may be seeing industrial fibers. Others may be seeing nerve fibers, fibroblasts, connective tissue fibers, extruded substances formed into hair-like shapes, capillaries, and/or rolled up skin cells. Some could even be assuming that they have fibers since others do. Some of these people could also be allergic certain industrial fibers and/or extruded toxic substances.

Margellons stated, "The trouble with Thrips is that believers unquestioningly accepted that tiny bugs can be hatched in their adult form directly through your skin, if you have Morgellons." Personally, I believe that this sometimes happens whether or not one is having a "Morgellons" experience. I don't think it happens often, but I do think it happens. One example of this is botflies. I think it is far more likely, however, when a flying insect exits someone's body, that it is one that has become freed from entrapment by a sticky lesion. In my opinion this would also apply to thrips and collembola. Some may also be infested by Sarcoptes scabei hominis, the notorious itch mite.

Margellons stated, "By being part of a community that wants to be believed, they support each other, and hence they believe each other, easily glossing over all inconsistencies." I believe this is true, and I also believe that some of these experiences are being misinterpreted or imagined, and that can happen for a variety of reasons. It doesn't necessarily mean that a person has done anything morally wrong. It is wrong, however, when people abuse their children and/or their pets, and by their own admission, some Morgellons believers are doing this also.

Tall Cotton

 
At 8:20 AM, Blogger Margellons said...

TC, botfly emerge as a pupa, and not as a winged insect. I don't know of any insect that emerges from flesh in the adult form. Thrips certainly are not known to do so.

Landing on skin, or emerging from skin - use Occam's Razor to decide.

 
At 11:10 AM, Blogger Tall Cotton said...

I agree that landing on the skin is the simplest and most likely of the two choices. I was mistaken about the botflies. I've heard of people spitting out gnat-like flying insects, but it seems more likely that they inadvertently breathed them into their mouths. What about earwigs? Just kidding!!

 
At 11:17 AM, Blogger Aherah said...

"Others may be seeing nerve fibers, fibroblasts, connective tissue fibers, extruded substances formed into hair-like shapes, capillaries, and/or rolled up skin cells."

I believe this could be the case also. Then we need to find out why this is happening to the extent that it is happening to the Morgies. If this is a "normal occurrence" that should be established. But if it were normal, why aren't we told "oh yeah, we all shed nerve fibers...I wouldn't think too much of it." Instead they say dop. In addition, if my body is having an immune response to something my body sheds, that indicative of an autoimmune disease. I've not been diagnosed or treated for an autoimmune disease, but I know many Morgies have. On the subject of doctors, I don't dislike doctors; I just know that they are human and not infallible like any other human. I trust them as much as I trust mechanics, some more than others. I think the problems actually lie in the structure of the system, but that's for another blog.

Back to the bugsā€¦I believe there is confusion among the Morgies on this issue because we can't escape the fact that it feels buggish. Whether or not there is a bug involved has yet to be determined, but your mind will play tricks on you when you feel these sensations. There are times when the posts on Lymebusters, including one of my own, fuel this hysteria. Then we take a step back and try to gain some perspective.

I recall that Ant also spoke of the snap, crackle, pop sensation. This leads me to believe that we may indeed have the same disorder; we just perceive it differently.

ah

 
At 11:28 AM, Blogger Aherah said...

"She said, 'No, it's a real disease, and we all have it, and you've come to the right place.'"

Funny that doesn't sound like me. I don't greet many newcomers, or haven't you noticed? Can you show me where I said this? Also, if I were to make grammatical errors, they will typically be fragments or comma splices as a result of carelessly trying to write how I talk. I don't combine sentences with multiple conjunctions and...and...and... I make errors, but that's not usually one of them.

Can you tell us what you know about thirps?

ah

 
At 12:17 PM, Blogger London2146 said...

So you guys are still at it ,eh? Well, I wanna play too-it's just that I don't give a damn about today's boring blog topic. I could care less if it's a collembola or a black bear causing problems or coming out of the skin.....I care about what it's doing to our insides. So I will just wait on a better day to play I guess. Hey, I did leave you a couple of comments this morning though....It was on the border patrol blog that was written I believe in May....You should check it out b/c I did ask you all a few questions there and I bet you might just want me to answer them for you....let me know....

Also, why the hell are you all so mean? My motto has always been "If you can't beat em'- join em' so I guess I will have to do just that...

I'm ready to throw sticks and stones with the best of you.....

"batter Up".....damn ready :)

 
At 12:22 PM, Blogger Tall Cotton said...

Thirps? Not a whole lot.

 
At 12:22 PM, Blogger Smileykins said...

What all have you been diagnosed with in the past, and how many times have you been institutionalized?

 
At 12:28 PM, Blogger Aherah said...

No times, ever, nothing even remotely close. Never fired. Never divorced. Never arrested. Any you Smiles?

 
At 12:33 PM, Blogger Aherah said...

Back on topic...

Guest518 posted:
"Almost all of the validated cases of human infestations (by springtails) have involved Collembola in head hair. In most but not all of these cases the people involved have been associated with horses and it has been suggested (but never proven) that fungi associated with horses were growing on the hair and the Collembola were feeding on these."

This has been speculated among the Morgies. If humans could be infected in the manner that the horses are, the bugs would be secondary to the initial infection of Fungi. And the guys with the collembola in the nasal passages, hmmm...such infestations certainly aren't common knowledge. Is it real or fiction?

You should open up that blog again Margie. We never really discussed it.

ah

 
At 12:34 PM, Blogger Aherah said...

I mean the blog on fungi.

ah

 
At 1:19 PM, Blogger Margellons said...

The fungi entry is still "open".

Fungi might explain some symptoms of some believers. Heck maybe there is some undiscovered fungus that produces fibers in the skin. Unlikely to have gone unnoticed by the thousands of doctors who have examined that skin, but possible.

Let say Aherah has some new pathogen. Suppose the doctors find out what Aherah has, and treat her. How many of the other Morgellons believers have the same thing as Aherah? Based on the symptoms, not a lot.

Obviously new disease come along all the time, see Lyme, Aids. Our understanding of disease and medicine evolves.

It's quite possible that one or two Morgellons believers is suffering in part from some new disease. But that likely only a coincidence.

I'm not against discovering new diseases. I'm against declaring a new disease based on nothing more than anecdotes and speculation, thus harming the health and welfare of hundreds of vulnerable people.

 
At 1:22 PM, Blogger Smileykins said...

To London, who said......

"I'm ready to throw sticks and stones with the best of you.....

'batter Up'.....damn ready" :)

12:17 PM

I inquired of "her".....

What all have you been diagnosed with in the past, and how many times have you been institutionalized?

12:22 PM

Abhorah,

February 15, 2005, during the wee hours of the morning, after the morgies' Coast to Coast program was over, you were the only person who replied to me, right away, upon my arrival at Lymebusters, and we communicated quite a bit.

Since you don't know, those archives were lost during a Pro Boards' upgrade.

All I know of Thirps, is that they were pesky little bugs the exterminators periodically treated for where I used to work. They bit, yes, but they did not parasitize anyone. I don't have a phobia for insects, and I've quite often enjoyed bug collecting in the past.

 
At 1:38 PM, Blogger London2146 said...

Smileykins,

ohhh, I like your mean arse attitude....Yes I do....What makes you ask such a dumb question? I have never been institutionalized.

Nor diagnosed with anything but what they now call Morgellons disease (dumb name, I agree) but Smiley, here is the diagnosis code for it: Morgellons disease 691.80
I would love to hear what you guys have to say about that- I really would....

Hey, don't ignore my border patrol post I wrote this morning...I know you read it...Want me to tell you some more information?

I will gladly provide it....

Your butt can be as mean as you want with me...try to tear my mean-ass down and I will rip to to shreds
for the effort.

 
At 1:43 PM, Blogger London2146 said...

and for the record....I do not write on Lymebusters anymore....and wish I would not have registered with any organization....I know they have to monitor us someway, but I'd rather make it a litlle harder on the government, if you know what I mean....Hey, Got any ideas as how I can remove my registration? Help me out here Tall cotton.

 
At 1:51 PM, Blogger Smileykins said...

"why are we always coming back to bugs when anyone starts to take a closer look?"

Because MRF membership, as has been publicized, is mostly comprised of people who have been diagnosed with delusional parasitosis.

 
At 2:01 PM, Blogger guest518 said...

Aherah posted:

"This has been speculated among the Morgies. If humans could be infected in the manner that the horses are, the bugs would be secondary to the initial infection of Fungi. And the guys with the collembola in the nasal passages, hmmm...such infestations certainly aren't common knowledge. Is it real or fiction?

You should open up that blog again Margie. We never really discussed it."

i don't think collembola is parasitic on anything, that just isn't they're nature. when horses get "infested" they arent feeding off the horse in anyway... i guess in a way you can say...they are a parasite of the fungi that is growing on the horse. but that's not really what parasitic means.

thrips are not human parasites either.

 
At 2:07 PM, Blogger London2146 said...

You want me to tell you what that is doen in those sores....Specifically talking about those white, ball-like things?

huh? want to know?

 
At 2:08 PM, Blogger London2146 said...

exuse the typo, I meant down in those lesions....you know, I am crazy and it does so effect my spelling abilities....

 
At 2:11 PM, Blogger London2146 said...

this is fun; you see, I like helping out the people that are ill. I guess I have a little bit tougher skin than most....I like a challenge and hate to lose....So you are in for a fun ride if you think you are gonna get to me....

Buckle up.....

 
At 2:23 PM, Blogger Tall Cotton said...

It seems to me like a lot of Morgies have their hearts set on blaming someone, besides themselves, for their poor health. No doubt, some would like to blame Monsanto for their Roundup Ready bioengineered cotton. As I understand it, the company did utilize the bacterium from which DNA was allegedly discovered in the lesion of a Morgellons believer. Yes, maybe some of these people are allergic to the new cotton or were poisoned by the herbicides used keep weeds out of the cotton patches.

On the other hand, some would like to blame chemtrails. Perhaps the aluminum and barium, which floats down from the skies has something to do with some of the problems. Maybe some problems are caused an organism in the aerosolized mix. Some Morgies seem to think they will be able to sue doctors for misdiagnosing them. Good luck, if you were wronged. But don't expect a doctor to diagnose a person with an illness that isn't recognized by the medical community.

Few, if any, of the Morgies blame there own genes, or themselves for letting their health become run down. Neither do they want to consider that they may have exacerbated a minor skin problem with the things they have done to their skin. Some are ignoring diagnoses for problems they obviously still have. But, in their minds, they have Morgellons, and someone is going to pay!

Tall Cotton

 
At 2:28 PM, Blogger Aherah said...

"they are a parasite of the fungi that is growing on the horse"

I thought that was what I said, "the bugs would be secondary to the initial infection of Fungi." I don't recall using the word "parasitic." I'm speculating that perhaps we also have a fungi growing on us. Many Morgies believe that this draws the bugs who eat fungi. It's just another of many theories.

ah

 
At 2:42 PM, Blogger guest518 said...

also just some more info to read...
btw, the thing about collembola in the nose is true...it has been varified.

-------

There are no parasitic springtails of any sort, and the few examples of them infesting humans have been due to very peculiar circumstances. One of the most remarkable ones was a man who, collecting Collembola extensively in the Arctic with a leaky aspirator, manages to get a culture living in his nasal passages! He discovered this when Collembola started showing up on his handkerchief after he blew his nose. Other people who work around horses occasionally find Collembola living in their hair, but there have been few reports of this in recent years.

source: http://www.emporia.edu/ksn/v39n1-october1992/part10.htm

 
At 2:44 PM, Blogger Margellons said...

London, 691.80 is the code for Atopic Dermititis.

You mentioned that your doctor's secretary told you this code for insurance purposes.

There is no code for Morgellons.

 
At 2:57 PM, Blogger Margellons said...

Here is the list

Dang, that's a lot of things that can go wrong....

 
At 3:02 PM, Blogger Aherah said...

"btw, the thing about collembola in the nose is true...it has been varified."

Thank you for the info guest518. I wonder if the doctors of the AMA are aware that their patients with itchy noses should be checked for collembola infestations. I wonder what might happen to a patient who suggests it: "Doctor, can you check my nasal secretions for bugs?" Hmmm...sounds like an open and shut dop diagnosis to me, even if it can happen.

ah

 
At 3:05 PM, Blogger Aherah said...

I don't know if it is all of the dust my body keeps producing or the thought of bugs in my nose, but suddenly I feel the urge to sneeze.

Ahh-choo

 
At 3:09 PM, Blogger Aherah said...

"Other people who work around horses occasionally find Collembola living in their hair, but there have been few reports of this in recent years."

Probably because they're all being diagnosed as dop. What doctor checks for collembola anyways? Is that even in the med books? I doubt it.

ah

 
At 3:13 PM, Blogger Margellons said...

Yes, asking for a collembola test for an itchy nose would get you diagnosed as at least hypochondriac, if not DOP.

The one guy with a collembola induced itchy nose, out of, say, six billion who have every had an itchy nose was a guy who spend extensive time collecting them in the Arctic.

Doctors can't test you for everything, there are just too many tests. They test you based on the likelihood of having a certain disease. Hence the problems with Lyme, where some people feel it is more widespread than others, and that more testing needs to be done.

Lots of parasite testing that some Morgellons believers want done is not done because they want to test for obscure tropical parasites.

You have to eliminate more likely things first.

On very rare occasions, this might lead to something being misdiagnosed. But for the vast majority of patients, doing tests in the right order is best for their health.

 
At 3:15 PM, Blogger Aherah said...

Guest518, Margie should be asking for your source of verification so he can scrutinize it. Show us the money.

ah

 
At 3:19 PM, Blogger Aherah said...

"You have to eliminate more likely things first."

What's being eliminated? From my own experience, you have to beg or threaten to get anything done. Then you really look nuts. Again, I know that this is the experience of people who do not have Morgellons as well. We're not the only ones who are being told that it is "all in our head."

ah

 
At 3:24 PM, Blogger Aherah said...

"Lots of parasite testing that some Morgellons believers want done is not done because they want to test for obscure tropical parasites."

Are the minute men keeping the parasites out too? Damn they're good.

Perhaps what the Morgies really want is to have their complaints taken seriously. Perhaps they just want answers, so they have taken it upon themselves to seek them. Nobody else seems concerned.

ah

 
At 3:37 PM, Blogger Aherah said...

Margie, what if the person had visited an obscure tropical country. Wouldn't it make sense to check them for a parasite of that country? Can parasites be transmitted from person to person? (I'll be explicit now.) Can't a person from an obscure tropical country take their parasite with them to the U.S. where they can spread it? Hmmm...lots of people in SF from obscure tropical countries--I even dated a few.

ah

 
At 3:41 PM, Blogger guest518 said...

Aherah i think you should consider somethings first.

when the guy with the Collembola in his nose went to his doctor and they talked, he probably said something like "you know doc, i've been in the artic for a while doing Collembola research...and now my nose feels itchy often"

the doc put 2 and 2 together based on the patient's lifestyle, normal people aren't high up north seeking out collembola to research. this is probably an isolated and rare case from what i read.

you also said, "I wonder if the doctors of the AMA are aware that their patients with itchy noses should be checked for collembola infestations. I wonder what might happen to a patient who suggests it"

well, if the average joe walked into the examination room and said DOC I GOT BUGS IN MY NOSE. i guess the doctor might be a little scepticial. but if someone walks in and says he has been out collecting collembola for research, and now he is blowing collembola out of his sinuses...i think the doctor would spend a little extra time, and give a little more credibility...at least at first.
also??? i don't get what you mean when you say, "Margie should be asking for your source of verification so he can scrutinize it. Show us the money."

are you questioning the source? you don't trust emporia state university?

 
At 3:48 PM, Blogger Smileykins said...

This is off the topic of Thrips, but the other day, Abhorah said.....

"I have no lesions to show anybody, which indicates to doctors that this is not a skin issue. I'm obviously having an immune response to something (swelling,etc.) but the doctors couldn't figure it out in the brief allergy testing that was done."

And???

"My experience has been that they don't really want to do much testing of anything. I don't know enough about medical conditions to know what to tell them to test for. I'm left with no choice but to figure it out for myself and treat myself."

How rational is it, to blame doctors? I've seen you complain of legs swelling, dizziness (or being light-headed), and chest pain.

A doctor would get right on that, if you told them. What's holding you back? That sounds like a possible circulatory/heart problem. Why are you obsessed with morgellons disease?

Ask for a referral to a lyme doctor, rheumatologist, or immunologist, if you feel you have a problem with immunity, but you have to tell your doctor your symptoms.

"Doctors couldn't figure it out"? You mean they ruled it out, so you did what then?

Nothing?

Do a symptoms check and get on with it.

Edema

 
At 4:21 PM, Blogger Aherah said...

"I'm not against discovering new diseases. I'm against declaring a new disease based on nothing more than anecdotes and speculation, thus harming the health and welfare of hundreds of vulnerable people."

When these new diseases evolve, what do we have to alert us except initial anecdotes and speculation? First we notice something wrong. Then we look for similarities across the populus with the something wrong. Then we might develop theories. Then we might test our theories. We conduct research. We can't know if there is something to the fiber thing until research is done. Yet, you seem convinced that there is nothing to it before anyone has had a chance at giving it a good look. This doesn't seem rational to me; this degree of skepitism seems emotional. If it is something, we would be "harming the health and welfare of hundreds of vulnerable people" by continuing to ignore it.

ah

 
At 4:23 PM, Blogger guest518 said...

i dont think anyone is against testing and research? isnt the cdc forming some group to look into it?

 
At 4:25 PM, Blogger Margellons said...

Speaking of tests - look at the best practices for itching again.

Specifically, look at Table 3, "Potential Tests for Patients With Generalized Pruritus of Unknown Origin".

That's twenty tests that can be done, just for itching. Now under what circumstances would you like to skip most of these and go straight to testing for Lymphatic Filariasis?

 
At 4:30 PM, Blogger Aherah said...

Sometimes I have to write a little before I can clearly articulate my point:

We have more to lose by doing nothing than we have to lose by doing something.

ah

 
At 4:30 PM, Blogger Showing Up said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
At 4:32 PM, Blogger Aherah said...

I apologize smiles; I didn't feel like playing with you today. Maybe London will take my place?

I'm done for now.

Aherah

 
At 4:38 PM, Blogger Margellons said...

I'd love to see some testing and research. But first you have to establish that there is a disease. It just needs a few people with a common set of unexplainable symptoms to get things rolling for a new disease.

The problem is that Morgellons believers think they are already past this stage, and that since there are thousands of people registered with the MRF, then we should get straight to theorizing.

But the first step in your list has not been taken, so all the other steps are simply sound and fury.

Epidemiology is what is needed. That is what I would like to see. A study should be done to see if there is anything statistically meaningful in the reports of the Morgellons believers. That's what Wymore's grad student is doing, and that probably what the CDC will do.

Of course you can perform tests on a single person, even yourself, and get statistically meaningful results if the results are consistent and verifiable. Lots of bizarre and unusual medical condition start with a description of a single case, just look at Hutchinson-Gilford Progeria.

 
At 4:58 PM, Blogger Smileykins said...

Linda said.......

I apologize smiles; I didn't feel like playing with you today. Maybe London will take my place?

I'm done for now.

Aherah

4:32 PM

I wasn't meaning to "play".
It's you and your babies. What does the world matter? "Wow", is all I can say.

 
At 6:28 PM, Blogger London2146 said...

Well, I wonder why she told me it was the code for Morgellons?

You think she was lying or that was the code they were told to use since
the sorry-arse CDC won't make up its mind? Poor CDC, they just are in a bind, are they not? They have lied and been caught red-handed....

I just learned of who LINDA said she thought you two were....why that does not make sense...why would you all turn on us? You clearly knew that children were infected....Maybe I missed that post, maybe there was not one, but I'd love it if you would refresh my memory on your take of children having these lesions with fibers coming out of them.

Plus if B.A. is one of you, Man, that's sad....I loved reading that man's post.....He was a smart man and it was thru his urging that I read Agenda 21.....

 
At 6:30 PM, Blogger here_to_comment said...

Hello, Showing Up.

It's clear there are people looking too closely at their symptoms. As they read message boards and are encouraged to watch for additional symptoms, they tend to expand their own list of ills. This is reasonable, in the sense that many of us would react the same way. It's unreasonable in the sense that it is subjective-- they're looking for something, so they will find it. If people travel far down that road, eventually they can appear "nuts." However, it's something that can happen to anyone.

I'm glad you're staying calm and I hope you find a doctor you like, and that you're open to their suggestions.


Margellons,

Great topic, well-expressed thoughts-- your ability to think critically inspires me to bring more of that into my own life.

 
At 8:40 PM, Blogger Showing Up said...

here_to_comment,

Thanks for responding. I suspect I have lyme disease but I haven't been tested. I have multiple sores. I've been waiting to hear from the cdc. I don't know whether or not I have fibers. I don't see any, but I don't have a microscope. I found out about the lymebuster site while googling lyme disease. I found out about morgellons and the morgellons.org website from them. I found this site while searching for more info on morgellons. This is the first site where I've found anyone that seems sensible. Thanks again.

 
At 8:55 PM, Blogger JeeezeLouise said...

Hiyas, Showing Up

Please don't get a microscope.

Thanks

 
At 10:09 PM, Blogger Margellons said...

London, maybe she told you that was the code because she wanted you to get some treatment for your eczema, but you were convinced you had Morgellons.

Did the perscription work?

 
At 6:14 AM, Blogger QueenBugB said...

"I know they have to monitor us someway, but I'd rather make it a litlle harder on the government, if you know what I mean...."

I love that. The government. What part of the government? The president? The judicial branch? The house of representatives? Exactly WHO is out to get you?

 
At 6:57 AM, Blogger London2146 said...

Dammit Margellons! I want to curse you out but give you a high five at the same time.....You cracked me up on that one...hehehe.....Now stop it b/c I'm supposed to hate you all.

and just for the hell and record too.....No, I did not get any medicine for my eczema b/c I did not have any...I was not even at the Dr.; just on the phone with
the secretary...

So, what's the new topic about today? I can't wait.... :)

 
At 6:58 AM, Blogger QueenBugB said...

Great post, London. "Put that in your cereal and eat it... oh wait, I'm wrong and didn't bother to check what was told to me."

So you see why I'm skeptical. "Morgellons" is a delusion, because even if other conditions are causing the discomfort, people don't want to believe they dont' have something exotic.

"You think she was lying or that was the code they were told to use since
the sorry-arse CDC won't make up its mind? Poor CDC, they just are in a bind, are they not? They have lied and been caught red-handed...."

The CDC lied? Did I miss something?

 
At 7:03 AM, Blogger London2146 said...

Dear mean-arse queenbugb,

Why do you make up statements?
To make up for your other smaller inadequacies? I never said the the Gov't was out to get me, nor anyone else...But I will say, that I'm out to get you...Hey, you know, they sell viagra online, ya know.....

But, if you want to know what Gov't Department I was referring to
when I said "Everybody run...the gov't is out to get us" well, that would fall under the Agricultural Department.

Have a big Day Honey....

 
At 7:11 AM, Blogger London2146 said...

Hell Yeah the CDC has lied....for starters....they (Julie) said that it is a disease and probably more than one disease.....then Dannyboy came on three days later saying that he waws going to form this task force to look into Morgellons to see if it was EVEN A Disease..

uhh, lets see, they are always backdating their emerging, infectious diseases page...Just 3-4 months ago, they said that filarial worm infections were not indigenous
to the US. About a month later...the same CDC web-Search said
that Filarial Worm infections had been a problem since 2003...

 
At 7:14 AM, Blogger QueenBugB said...

London,

Your return argument is strangely familiar. It reminds me of the ones I had in junior high, with name-calling.

You said there's a diagnosis for Morgellons, and said you'd really like to hear what we said about that. It was atopic dermatitis. So, I'm inviting you to do research on what you say before you say it.

You said you're not on lymebusters anymore, and want to withdraw your registration with the MRF because you want to make it harder for the government to... what, find you? I was just curious, who you meant by "the government."

I'm looking back at my previous posts and finding nothing errant or made-up about what I said. So, you may either respond, or, you can be threatening. *Shrug*

People wonder why folks with "Morgellons" are not taken seriously.....

 
At 7:18 AM, Blogger London2146 said...

Hey, Do you all get paid to blog?

What a kool Job! See ya later, I gotta go feed the fibers and worms..

 

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