Friday, June 23, 2006

Fibers on CNN

The recent CNN story on Morgellons (text version) was interesting as it focused on Randy Wymore’s examination of fibers, and actually showed his colleges removing fibers from a patient, and looking at them under a microscope.

In absence of any epidemiological studies, the only thing that makes the claims of Morgellons at all notable are the “fibers” that sufferers claim to have emerging from their skin. Now I’ve written quite a lot about this before, basically showing that fibers are everywhere, and that many of the photos of fibers shown can easily be identified as Kleenex, or clothing fibers.

The whole Morgellons case hinges around these fibers, which was the thing that originally got me interested – I think it’s high time that I get back to examining the fiber evidence, starting with the CNN video.

First of all, we have Dr Wymore in a thrift store, collecting fiber specimens from clothing with some scotch tape. The reporter then asks him if the fibers he found from Morgellons patients resemble clothing fibers. He responds “No, not at all, totally different”.

Here’s what Dr Wymore told me, on May 22, 2006:
You see, we do indeed find environmental contaminants in samples from Morgellons sufferers. Definitely cotton, likely from bandages and cellulose fibers, probably from tissue. But, we are not interested in the contaminants that are everywhere. We take the time to sort through the known fibers to examine in more detail the ones that look unusual.”

So what he’s saying here is that he ignores that fibers he can identify, and keeps looking until he finds fibers he cannot identify. I asked him if he did not think that in any sufficiently large sample of household fibers (laundry lint, for example), there would not be some fibers that he would be unable to identify – but so far he has declined to answer.

Later we have some footage of the Morgellons group examining patients, plucking fibers off them, and looking at them through a microscope. Dr Rhonda Casey, DO, points at a small blue fiber and says “That is definitely not a hair, the blue thing there”.



The fiber she points at looks exactly like standard tiny lint fiber. Probably blue cotton. She carefully take it off, and makes a slide.


This is what they saw”, the reporter says, and shows this picture:

There’s a blue fiber in the middle that looks like a cotton fiber. For some reasons there are a bunch of other fibers that were not next to the blue fiber before. The clear ones in the middle look like cotton or paper, the large brown ones look like human hairs (at about 80 microns they are the correct size). The very dark lines look like the edge of a large air bubble.

We then see several other images, one of which is clearly a damaged human hair – you can even see the scales.



So what’s going on here? Randy Wymore is finding fibers that look different (to him) from clothing fibers. Well, notwithstanding that it’s almost inevitable that you will find unidentified fibers wherever you look, what might make ordinary fibers turn into the Morgellons fibers?

Let’s take a simplistic explanation. Say someone suffers from something that has symptoms of neurotic excoriations (they pick at their own skin, consciously or unconsciously). They are going to have many open lesions on their skin (forearms and faces being common areas). Now lesions are wet and sticky, so naturally they will have several tiny fibers stuck in them. Lesions also heal, so the tiny fibers become embedding in the new skin.

A few months later, just like a splinter, the fiber works its way to the surface of the skin. It may emerge at the original lesion site, or it may have migrated a few inches over. Is it surprising that a small blue piece of cotton that has spent many months under the skin, now looks nothing like clothing fibers plucked with scotch tape at the local thrift store?

That’s just a theory – but it’s a nice simple theory that explains things without introducing a mysterious pathogen. Occam’s Razor: “entities should not be multiplied beyond necessity”. Before claiming that because he cannot identify some fibers, then a new disease exists, Professor Wymore must explain how he has fully discounted the multitude of far simple explanations.

I’ll simplify this to two questions:

1) In any large sample of household fibers, will there not always be some that are unidentified?
2) If a clothing fiber were embedded in the skin for a long period of time, and then emerged, would you be able to identify it as a clothing fiber?

196 Comments:

At 12:55 PM, Blogger Smileykins said...

Bottom line... he too, is a man with an illness. "They" were on Coast-To-Coast radio, again, last night. My AM radio reception was too poor for me to hear it, but I got periodic feedback from my daughter on it, mostly, "OMG, mom, you can tell from listening to them, that they're...."

You know, the illness they have in common has quite a few causes behind it, but we, here, (and I hate saying this, but it isn't something entirely not feasible), could be inadvertently placing ourselves in danger.

Here we are, wanting to provide nothing more than a service to counteract any readers' ideas , who hear about the spread of this lunacy named "morgellons disease" and fall suseptible to the suggestion.

Look at the interference it has stirred in the community of victims of this particular illness. We aren't even addressing them, we aren't reinforcing their delusions, (like all the literature advises), and yet, they are here.

We don't know what their particular states of mental health are, that has caused them to have such problems as they do, but it's clear that they want to force their delusions onto us.

None of us have handbooks on how to deal with such people, and it freaks me out!!! Our society has never seen such a thing as this phenomenon, unfolding, and unravelling, right before our very eyes, so out in the forefront of things. I hate it, and I don't know what can be done to stop it, but I think our Surgeon General and Animal Rights Groups need to step in before it gets any worse, though. It's gone on too long.

They think there is lack of research into the one illness they all have in common, and we all know that isn't so. More can be done, yes, but treat it in the meantime. Lord, what a mess. What a crisis!!!

 
At 3:03 PM, Blogger JeeezeLouise said...

Twenty years ago, I had a VERY close encounter with a windshield. Quite a lot of glass was picked out of my face in the ER, of course, but quite a lot of smaller bits remained to work out on their own, and most did before the skin healed over. The relatively few shards that didn't surface before being trapped beneath scar tissue, however, to this day continue to seek paths of lesser resistance, and occasionally emerge - quite a distance from where they went in, out of skin that was NEVER BROKEN.

When that happens, they appear first as an itchy little bump, develop into what looks like a whitehead with a very solid center which can last for several weeks if I leave it alone, and I usually do. Finally, what emerges looks nothing like a piece of windshield glass. The glass has, over the years, been encased in tissue and frankly, could be mistaken for some of the "parasite / seed pods" so often described over at Lymebusters.

So, yes, it is absolutely possible for foreign objects to become trapped under healed skin, migrate around over time and finally emerge looking nothing at all like they did going in.

regards

 
At 3:05 PM, Blogger guest518 said...

I’ll simplify this to two questions:

1) In any large sample of household fibers, will there not always be some that are unidentified?
2) If a clothing fiber were embedded in the skin for a long period of time, and then emerged, would you be able to identify it as a clothing fiber?

answer ( in my opinion )
1.yes
2.yes, with chem. analisis and a few other simple lab tests. probably.

 
At 4:21 PM, Blogger Smileykins said...

What you've both said is so relevant. When I was ill a few years ago, everywhere I'd had sutures (some dating back to nearly 40 years ago), migrated and came out.

Why is the MRF team of experts, those "highy respectable, renowned physicians", as morgie folk refer to them as, obsessing over this, though? Doctors get sick too, is the "simplest answer", and the "nicest answer".

I don't have a strong background in chemistry, but consider all the biochemical events involved in our bodies' immunological processes. I can't rule out that certain environmental fibers "would be" that easy to analyze after going through those processes.

Haha, but why the hell do it in the first place?!!!

 
At 5:05 PM, Blogger Margellons said...

I'm only suggesting the "environmental fibers migrating through the skin" theory as a possible explanation of a few Morgellons cases.

I'm sure some fibers could be identified after going through that, given the right battery of tests.

But suppose it were cotton - what exactly would it look like after coming out? I don't think then you would so easily recognise it. Cotton would also absorb a lot of stuff from the body - antibodies, all kinds of bodily fluids. Then when emerging from the skin, it would pick up all kinds of stuff - sebum, dermal cells, etc - how exactly are you going to determine what it is? In fact, it will have so much biological material attached, you might assume it's something created inside the body.

Again though, that's only going to account for a fraction of Morgellons fibers.

But consider all the stuff Morgellons suffers put on their skin - all kinds of ointments, salt rubs, bactrin, even bleach. They soak for hours in tubs of enzymes, they zap themselves with electricity, they shine ultraviolet light on their skin, they subject their clothes to a batter of abuse, bleach, borax, boiling, insecticides. It is quite possible that their once normal cotton fibers have become unrecognizable after being abused in this manner. They won't resemble the fibers Professor Wymore collected from the thrift store.

 
At 6:41 PM, Blogger Aherah said...

"But consider all the stuff Morgellons suffers put on their skin - all kinds of ointments, salt rubs, bactrin, even bleach. They soak for hours in tubs of enzymes, they zap themselves with electricity, they shine ultraviolet light on their skin, they subject their clothes to a batter of abuse, bleach, borax, boiling, insecticides. It is quite possible that their once normal cotton fibers have become unrecognizable after being abused in this manner. They won't resemble the fibers Professor Wymore collected from the thrift store."

Funny, I didn't do any of this back in 1992, and yet I still had fibers arising from my intact (I don't have lesions to "shove fibers into") skin. Remember, I hoped it would just go away on its own. Again, you portray all those who suffer with Morgellons through the words of a few on Lymebusters. Do they speak for me? No. You embellish a lot too.

"all kinds of ointments, salt rubs, bactrin, even bleach."

Hmmm...ever been to a spa? They sit in mud baths. Ya know, any person who ever cleans his/her dwelling has probably come into contact with bleach, also in the water, also in the pools. Unless you're the wicked witch of the west, you probably won't melt. I don't believe anybody is dousing themselves, or we'd of heard about that.

"They soak for hours in tubs of enzymes"

So, if I toss a little papaya/pineapple to my bath, you'd disapprove? Who has the time or desire to soak for "hours" anyway? Maybe you, certainly your posse, but I don't.

"they zap themselves with electricity"

It is my understanding that the zappers are battery operated, and work on radio frequencies. I don't believe the zappers can do anywhere near the harm the military zappers (ultrahigh frequency radios) can do. I used to work with those. Those you should be concerned about, whereas the little battery operated ones not so much.

"they shine ultraviolet light on their skin"

What? Are those Morgies tanning again? You'd think they knew better. As much as I try to avoid the sun, it always seems to be there. Go figure?

"they subject their clothes to a batter of abuse, bleach, borax, boiling, insecticides."

You don't do laundry now Margie? Got someone to do it for you? Ask them how they do laundry. Most laundry is abused by bleach, borax, and very, very hot water (especially if you have kids!!!) Perhaps they put insecticide on their laundry, or their body, I don't know. I do know that insecticide gets on my clothes when they start spraying the farms nearby, or when they do aerial spraying to kill off the virus carrying mosquitoes. In Ca., it might actually be a good idea to toss in a little insecticide to keep the westnile buggers away if that's what it takes.

"It is quite possible that their once normal cotton fibers have become unrecognizable after being abused in this manner."

Sorry, but, are you premeditating excuses for when they determine that the fibers are not textile? Sounds like it. Don't wet your pants just yet.

You never address my questions Margie. Why is that?

Aherah

 
At 6:49 PM, Blogger southcity said...

My god of all people, it seems you are the one in denial. I understand this is a frightening illness, but to deny all proof and grasp at straws like you are, WOW. take a deep breath and try to understand that you are incorrect in this case. As more time goes on this will only be made clearer, so if I may offer a suggestion. Please put your critical thinking ability to good usage. Help those that are suffering instead of placing up a wall. Not only would this be a good thing as far as your karma is concerned, but when all the facts are ironed out, you will feel a whole lot better about yourself.

 
At 7:48 PM, Blogger Aherah said...

Southcity, I couldn't agree more. Yet, it is as if they need to believe that this disease isn't real. For them, it's more than, shall we say, skin deep. It is scary for us, but worse for them. Who knows what psychological processes are interrupting their ability to reason.

 
At 8:15 PM, Blogger Smileykins said...

Two simple questions...
1. Have either of you ever had the suggestion, from a doctor, that you need something for anxiety?

2. Have either of you ever been diagnosed as having delusional parasitosis?

I think neither of you should worry about us, here, thinking that we are going to be stricken with anything. I certainly am not concerned with military zappers, either, and, haha, if I am a part of "margellons' posse", I do know how to take of my skin, and my overall health.

Y'all, really now...what are you all about, that you think doesn't show so blatantly?

 
At 8:16 PM, Blogger JeeezeLouise said...

Frankly, I think my ability to reason is just fine. However, one thing I simply cannot figure out is why YOU care what I think? Is my skepticism harming you in some way? Do you suppose that if we just all start believing in Morgellons, our combined belief will cause a white light to appear and cure you?

This is not a high traffic blog. The few people posting here are not keeping your doctors from seeing what you say you see. The people posting here are not preventing the CDC from investigating your complaints. Convincing me will change nothing for you, regardless of whether Morgellons is real or not.

And yet you still come here to argue the matter, and to tell us how much we are damaging our karma. It's probably my impaired 'critical thinking skills' but I don't get it.

Why do you care what I think?

 
At 8:24 PM, Blogger Tall Cotton said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
At 8:58 PM, Blogger Smileykins said...

Um, uh, well, as far as "premeditating excuses for when they determine that the fibers are not textile"....

Gee whiz, they could just be people's own connective tissue fibers. The point is, nobody in their right mind, especially a Phd in Physiology, should be in an obsessive pursuit of something that is not mysterious.

A woman with delusions formed a "foundation" based on a 400 year old "disease"...

Hello? A bunch of people with the same problem, DOP, heard about "her made up disease", based on nothing more than her own delusion. There's no disease. There never has been.

The only one is DOP, and she formed a case definiton to try linking together what all the DOP patients have in common, making "that" all part of her made-up disease.

Now, can any people suffering from it realize that is the reality of the situation? Why, hell, no. Not even with the rest of society knowing it.

Why? Well, I ain't splainin'.

 
At 9:11 PM, Blogger Smileykins said...

Something else I want to share concerning fibers...
Back when I was ill in 2002, all the broken spider veins in my thighs even came out of my skin. That was a nice thing, too, because they'd been unsightly. I didn't pick, I didn't probe, nor pull them out. I was gentle to my skin when all that happened to me back then, as I was accustomed to being all my life, due to skin allergies.

 
At 9:32 PM, Blogger JeeezeLouise said...

Dammit. I want my spider veins to go away! ;)

 
At 9:32 PM, Blogger abac68 said...

Some more truth about “Morgellons Disease”
- Scalp ‘hair’ will grow into facial tissue
- Into eye brows
- Ear canals
- Fibers will emerge from eyes, nasal passages, mouth, ear canals
and every other orifice in the human body
- Fibers will emerge from fully intact skin (no lesions)
- Fibers (ie. Size, colour) will be very visible to the eye and anyone watching
- Fibers enter the human skin via the lymphatic system (immune system)
- Growing literally like a plant via all lymph glands, lymph nodes, lymph vessels etc etc

 
At 9:37 PM, Blogger JeeezeLouise said...

>>- Fibers (ie. Size, colour) will be very visible to the eye and anyone watching <<

If this is true, then why is the greatest complaint among Morgies that their doctors can't see it?

 
At 9:38 PM, Blogger abac68 said...

Debunk the CDC.

 
At 9:41 PM, Blogger abac68 said...

"If this is true, then why is the greatest complaint among Morgies that their doctors can't see it? "

It depends on how severe, or how long one has had this disease. Things change, but not for the better. Remember I am in Australia. We are tired of waiting on the CDC.

 
At 10:02 PM, Blogger JeeezeLouise said...

>>Remember I am in Australia. We are tired of waiting on the CDC.<<

If you're in Australia, why are you waiting on an agency funded by the American taxpayer, anyway? The CDC has no responsibility for you.

 
At 10:05 PM, Blogger Tall Cotton said...

abac68,

Sorry you're so down and under. If you aren't satisfied with the CDC, why don't you petition your own government, and quit worrying about ours?

Tall Cotton

 
At 10:07 PM, Blogger abac68 said...

Some more truth about “Morgellons Disease”
- skin and lymph glands literally become one
- skin sticks like glue to lymph glands
- one can literally pull skin out of joints, skin rolls, moves, slides all these things are noticed by all observers.
- Changes of the outside facial tissue can be noted by looking inside ones mouth
- Skin is taken for a ride twisting and turning, upside down, inside out, side to side
- Eyes swell, so will face and neck.
- Hair line on scalp changes
- Hair line appears to grow half way down forward
- Head will change shape

 
At 10:12 PM, Blogger abac68 said...

Why don’t you ask the CDC themselves (since somebody on this blog seems to have some good connections) how many countries worldwide have given them a phone call about “Morgellons Disease”? We weren’t all born stupid.

 
At 10:14 PM, Blogger Smileykins said...

Well, Jeezlouise, I sure wouldn't wish anyone to lose spider veins through that method, haha, but I also lost my freckled face, too, which I can't say I miss either.

Abac68, how have you arrived at calling something a "truth about morgellons"? Would it be a correct assumption that you're basing it on the truth of your personal experience? For everyone who thinks they have this thing called "morgellons disease", yes, I suppose it would be nice if they could get what they expect from the CDC. I don't recommend that route, but nobody appears to trust the knowledge of their doctors, which is what brought them all this far to begin with.

Barbara Boughton is a health and medical writer based in the San Francisco Bay Area, and this is the BEST article I've yet to read on the topic, as it relates to a similar scenario as this situation of "morgellons disease" and the so-called victims of it.

http://tinyurl.com/ehwyh

Excerpt...

Fajardo and his colleague David Relman, learned about delusions of parasitosis the hard way. In 1996 the two physicians published a paper in Lancet reporting the discovery of a brand new parasite, which had been found in the liver and in other intra-abdominal tissues of a man with AIDS.

People with delusions of parasitosis read of the discovery and wasted no time contacting the researchers by phone, mail, or email. All of the calls and correspondence -- 20 or 30 each time the study was published -- were the same: cries for help. The writers claimed to have long been acquainted with the parasite the researchers had discovered. In fact, their bodies were teeming with it.

"Often they were hysterical. Some people thought they were about to die," says Relman, an assistant professor of medicine (infectious diseases) and of microbiology and immunology at Stanford. "Others even told me they would donate an organ to science if we could find out what parasite was attacking them."

(It's a worthwhile read)

 
At 10:18 PM, Blogger JeeezeLouise said...

>>Why don’t you ask the CDC themselves (since somebody on this blog seems to have some good connections) how many countries worldwide have given them a phone call about “Morgellons Disease”? <<

Again, why are you "waiting on" the CDC, which is funded by the American taxpayer and has no responsibility to you or to any other country worldwide?

It's really irrelevant how many countries have "given them a phone call", and your reply was a non-answer.

 
At 10:22 PM, Blogger JeeezeLouise said...

Well, rats. I can't afford the plastic surgery route for those veins, Smiley, because I am an American taxpayer and ... oh, never mind, not going there.

As for this --

"People with delusions of parasitosis read of the discovery and wasted no time contacting the researchers by phone, mail, or email. All of the calls and correspondence -- 20 or 30 each time the study was published -- were the same: cries for help. The writers claimed to have long been acquainted with the parasite the researchers had discovered. In fact, their bodies were teeming with it."

I notice Lymebusters has a whole lot of new members tonight. But I'm sure it's just coincidental to the CNN bit.

regards

 
At 10:27 PM, Blogger Margellons said...

Aherah:

Hmmm...ever been to a spa?
No. But the general point is that fibers collected from a Morgelons patient are not going to be the same as fibers collected directly from clothing. Since being on the body, and being subject to the various things we do to our bodies (like applying moisturizer, or taking a mud bath) will physically and chemically alter cotton fibers.



So, if I toss a little papaya/pineapple to my bath, you'd disapprove?
No, feel free. But don't be surprised if some papaya genes show up in your biopsy. It's not horizontal gene transfer - it's your choice of soak.

Who has the time or desire to soak for "hours" anyway?
Not me, that's for sure - but even a brief shower could have an effect. What does cotton look like after being showered?
What? Are those Morgies tanning again?
Light therapy is used for a bunch of skin conditions. Radiation can alter the physical and chemical appearance of things slightly.

Go figure?
Yes.

You don't do laundry now Margie? Got someone to do it for you?
I stick some "All" in the machine, and let it go. But even that will have some effect on fibers over time. Other people, such as yourself, do a lot more. I wonder what kind of laundry Prof. Wymore's sample fibers had gone through?

Sorry, but, are you premeditating excuses for when they determine that the fibers are not textile?
No, that would be kind of pointless really. I'm suggesting right now, that Wymore'd determination that the fibers are not environmental is based on wishful thinking, and not any hard evidence. "They don't look environmental to me" is not a good basis for a new disease. Some epidemiological study might me. Something that actually has some statistical validity.

You never address my questions Margie. Why is that?
Would you care to ask some questions? I'll give them my best shot.

 
At 10:32 PM, Blogger JeeezeLouise said...

Abac68, here is a link to the US 2006 Federal tax table. When you have remitted your share, feel free to complain about the CDC.

http://tinyurl.com/9bkvw

 
At 10:37 PM, Blogger Margellons said...

The CDC is responding - but their wheels grind exceedingly fine.

In the meantime, here's their position:

"Not a day passes when I don't talk to somebody who claims to have this," said CDC spokesman Dan Rutz. "In the absence of any objective review, people have jumped to conclusions and found each other on the Internet and formed their own belief structure. We really need to debunk this if there isn't anything to it or identify if there is indeed a new, unrecognized disease that needs attention."

Seems very reasonable to me.

 
At 10:41 PM, Blogger JeeezeLouise said...

>>Seems very reasonable to me.
<<

We are in agreement.

And I'm going to can up my batch of bread and butter pickles now, rather than start a war on your blog ;)

I just get very annoyed at folks who demand results from a government they do not pay for.

regards and good evening to you

 
At 10:49 PM, Blogger Smileykins said...

Excuse me for interrupting, but, abac68, I've read that Mary Leitao instructs followers who contact her, to:

1. Buy microscopes
2. Buy ultraviolet lamps
3. Contact all their government and health authorities, even providing names, addresses, and telephone numbers, worldwide, to them
4. Oh, yes, and also, she instructs them to go to Lymebusters' message board to share

I think that the CDC has bent over backwards handling this as respectfully as possible, all the while persisting, in their sound recommendation, that people need to go to their local healthcare providers.

If that recommendation cannot be understood by the population of people it is directed to, therein lies a pretty big problem, yes?

 
At 10:54 PM, Blogger Tall Cotton said...

Concerning the CNN film clip, if I were a "Morgie", I would be quite disappointed. Despite the fact that the Morgellons story was aired on national television, which is a hugh accomplishment from their point of view, I don't think the story did much for their cause. You could tell that the whold bunch were nuts, so how much could it have helped them.

Even though I would put very little past a Morgie, I thought that the doctor's suggestion that these people have been pressing fibers into their lesions sounded ridiculous. It's not unusual, however, for plant fiber to be found in a wound. Ordinary house dust contains a high percentage of plant debris.

Tall Cotton

 
At 11:01 PM, Blogger Margellons said...

Yeah, that doctor did not come accross very well. I don't think he spent much time looking into the situation - and so fell into the trap of painting them all with the same brush.

He did not actually say that they pushed fibers deliberately into their lesions - but that's what they made it sound like.

I think superficially the report is a boost for the Morgellons belivers. But ultimately, more publicity means more scrutiny, and the sooner we arrive at some actual statistics.

 
At 11:01 PM, Blogger Smileykins said...

I don't have the same interpretation of "pressing fibers into lesions", or however it's been stated..."pressing", "injecting", or whatever. Having been a person with "symptoms of this", just through the process of bathing and drying off, particulates can be inadvertently pressed into skin.

 
At 11:14 PM, Blogger Tall Cotton said...

I guess I misunderstood. I thought he meant deliberately. I agree that plant particulate is everywhere. It floats into our houses every time a door is opened. It's in the air we breath and on everything we touch.

Tall Cotton

 
At 11:26 PM, Blogger Aherah said...

Jeesselouise "If this is true, then why is the greatest complaint among Morgies that their doctors can't see it?"

When they look, they DO see it.



Margie's cdc quote "We really need to debunk this if there isn't anything to it or identify if there is indeed a new, unrecognized disease that needs attention."

"Seems very reasonable to me."

To me as well. I'd love to see them debunk this, really.



Bugs (because I liked him better) "The human immune system produces fibers to encapsulate everything it can't push out of the body quickly or consume. Why red and blue? I don't know, but I know that a ruby is made of aluminum oxide, an if you add a little bit of chromium in the formation process, what to you get. Yes, a blue sapphire. Am I saying that this is what's happening. No. I'm just saying that there are a lot of processes that could be taking place."

Thank you. An admission that the FIBERS EXIST in our flesh, and they are not dust. I don't disagree with you bugs. As I have always said, I don't know what this is, but it is something. I have also speculated that this could be an immune response in the manner that you describe. I did get a sense that this may have been the direction of Dr. Martin's thinking (remember him?) since he seemed to view the fibers as a good thing. Even if this is the case, don't we deserve respectful attention to find out why our immune systems are acting in this manner? Don't we deserve real explanations?

I believe somewhere deep in all that cotton, you're still there.


I apologize for all of my poor editing skills lately...been in a rush.


Take Care unfriendly friends,
Aherah

 
At 11:30 PM, Blogger Aherah said...

"I don't think he spent much time looking into the situation"

Few do--it's too much work.

" - and so fell into the trap of painting them all with the same brush."

You mean generalizing? Like the type of generalizing you do here? Right?

ah

 
At 11:33 PM, Blogger Aherah said...

"I don't have the same interpretation of "pressing fibers into lesions", or however it's been stated..."pressing", "injecting", or whatever. Having been a person with "symptoms of this", just through the process of bathing and drying off, particulates can be inadvertently pressed into skin."

Respectfully Mary, you're reaching. I don't have lesions. How is this stuff getting into my skin...by pressing it in? How can I press fibers into my flesh? That's magic.

ah

 
At 11:45 PM, Blogger Margellons said...

Generalizing is the problem here. I try to qualify everything I say so it's clear who or what I'm specifically applying my statements to. But invariably it gets taken as a generalization. I'm not generalizing - I'm very specific that the situation is very complex and there at lot of things going on. You will see I rail against the simplistic DOP diagnosis in several of my posts.

The real generalization here is lumping all these people with disparate symptoms together and allowing them to believe they all have the same new disease that somehow the doctors are overlooking.

They don't all have the same thing - they all have different things, and need to be treated on an individual basis.

If you still feel I generalise, feel free to point out where, and I will attempt to be more specific.

 
At 11:47 PM, Blogger Aherah said...

Margie, I felt that, in your defense, you had changed the essence of the blasmospos tidbits you had said about Morgies. Changing an argument in order to make it easier to defend just makes you appear confused about what you are talking about. We're all a least mildly literate here, but good try.

ah

 
At 11:49 PM, Blogger Aherah said...

Ok Margie,

Do you think that I have fibers coming out of my flesh as I have stated?

I'm hoping for a direct answer here.

ah

 
At 11:52 PM, Blogger Aherah said...

oops...blasmopos = blasphemous (tired)

 
At 11:57 PM, Blogger Aherah said...

"But invariably it gets taken as a generalization. I'm not generalizing"

Everytime you say "Morgies do this" you are constructing a group of people and applying characteristics to them. Some characteristics may not suit them all (i.e. I don't bathe in bleach). Some characteristics may not apply to any, but because you refer to them in a manner similar to that used in bigotry, you are generalizing. People of___________ skin color do this. People of ___________religion do this. ___________s act like this.
Get it?

ah

 
At 11:59 PM, Blogger Margellons said...

Aherah, I don't think I've really changed my argument - perhaps clarified it as I've both discovered more, and observed how my exposition had been misinterpreted.

My earliest posts are still here on the Blog. Sure I did not know a lot back then, but the basis of my argument is the same: the evidence is lacking.

And as for if you have fibers coming out of your skin - I have no idea. I don't know what disease(s) you have. I don't know if the fibers come out of your skin, or if you are mistaken, or delusional. I don't know anything about your particular case.

No disrespect to the reality of your situation - but to my overall argument, your situation is irrelevant. Since you are unable to demonstrate your condition to a doctor, then it might as well not exist. I know from your point of view, it's all too real, but from the point of view of establishing the existence of a new disease, it's anecdotal at best.

Maybe you some newly described disease that causes fibers to emerge from the skin. I'd be delighted for some clarity in this situation - regardless of the outcome.

My argument is that there is no evidence of a common disease, or that the fibers are anything unusual. Suggesting otherwise is damaging the health of several patients.

Real statistic are what is needed.

 
At 12:02 AM, Blogger Aherah said...

In science and medicine, the person is not longer a subject (a unique individual person) he/she is an object (a patient, a diagnosis, etc). The problem with treating people like objects instead of subjects is that they tend to be far more complex than a "thing." Men objectify women when they see an attractive woman and interpret it as a "hot bod." Medical science has been doing the same to us, only we have been objectified as "sick minds." It's too simplistic.

ah

 
At 12:07 AM, Blogger Margellons said...

The number of Morgellons sufferers who use whatever home remedy is irrelevant to this point. The point is that fibers are changed by various things such as lotion and bleach, and that needs to be accounted for when attempting to identify fibers.

And since I'm trying to address the claims made on the CNN report - at least two of the patients shown were Lymebusters regulars. So reflecting the predilections of Lymebusters does not seem unreasonable.

 
At 12:09 AM, Blogger Margellons said...

I agree, that is too simplistic.

The situation is not simple at all.

 
At 12:14 AM, Blogger Aherah said...

I thank you for your frank, respectful reply.

"Since you are unable to demonstrate your condition to a doctor."

I am not really unable. I hadn't found a doctor willing to look when I was able; they would literally look away as if they might turn into a pillar of salt is they saw something (very strange). I have figured out how to keep the fibers to a minimum, which means I have less "to show." I suppose I could allow my health to fall by the wayside again resulting in more fibers, but the fear of getting that ill is too great. Nonetheless, my present doctor believes that I have this condition, but she does not know what to do.

The "no evidence" argument is odd because there has been no attempt at establishing any evidence. Research to debunk or research to find a course of treatment, I don't really care. I'd just like to know what the hell is going on.

Take caution in your blogs. There always lies the possiblity that you could be wrong.

BTW, are you a Brit? I noticed a British variation in some of your spellings.

ah

 
At 12:31 AM, Blogger Margellons said...

I'm in favor of evidence. My point was that the claims that are being made are claims that demand evidence. They are not saying "we suspect there might be some new disease that has these symptoms", it's more like "THIS THING IS REAL!" when the claim seems to be based on a subjective correlation of a subset of the sufferer's symptoms with a subset of the laundry list of symptoms that the MRF came up with.

Statistics should include some numbers. I'm glad Wymore is having a grad student do some Morgellons analysis as part of her PhD, hopefully some statistics will emerge. But until then, some precision is required on your part if you wish to make extraordinary claims.

 
At 1:22 AM, Blogger Smileykins said...

I would like to know who was personally accused by their doctor of injecting fibers with a hypodermic needle. I know perceptions are off, and I realize how many people say things that just aren't accurate when they're angry over not being believed. I just can't quite fathom that a doctor would say that and mean it. Being at their wit's end, maybe, due to pressure from a patient's insistence, I guess, while only being human, they could have spoken out of turn.

To Aherah...Yes, I suppose that when doctors look at patients' "specimens", as well as seeing their concerns over fibers and other debris actually in their skin, "they DO see it".

If you took whatever advice you'd received from your doctor, then you probably would see your personal situation debunked.

Then, you could address your real health matters, such as your legs swelling and your chest pains, so you could deal with any other existing, as well as future, concerns for yourself and your family.

But of course you liked Bugs Alive better than Tall Cotton Aherah...he is the SAME person though. You know that although Bugs Alive was open about everything at lymebusters, as well as on another message board after that, admitting DOP is an intolerable, insufferable, thing to you, as well as to all morgellons believers.

Poor Jeff can't succumb to his own enlightment, due to the others...hell, even a lyme specialist, who is, of all things, a doctor of accupuncture...trying to pull Jeff back into "their delusion".

"I believe somewhere deep in all that cotton, you're still there." Oh, Aherah, please.

Now, by incorrectly employing the word, "respectfully", as well as inferring you know me well enough to call me by my name, you're wishing to convey what?

Among the vast array of issues you reveal through just the very essence of your writings, I wish you could only pay as much attention to your own words when they've been re-posted to you, but attributing your condition to magic is the most sensible thing I've seen you utter so far.

Who doesn't know that fibers exist in our flesh? Great day in the morning.

Speaking from a background of experience through having made generalized comments in the past, on morgie message boards, and now, having to deal with those of you who have chosen to take offense here, ah...forget about it.

In my very strong opinion, when it comes to diagnosing delusional parasitosis, doctors arent generalizing whatsoever in the least.

If a patient goes in with "their particular skin concerns", as they do, being first and foremost out of any other health complaints during an office call, resulting in a DOP diagnosis...how much farther do they advance with telling the rest of their health concerns after that occurs?

Look at the numbers of other doctors many patients consecutively go to...that's plenty of opportunities to bring up all the other health issues, from A to Z. What's the one dwelt upon, though?

I hope you didn't actually read any of this. The End.

 
At 1:31 AM, Blogger Smileykins said...

If anyone wants to know "why our immune systems are acting like this", go to either a lyme specialist, a rheumatologist,
or an immunologist, for crying out loud.

 
At 6:57 AM, Blogger Tall Cotton said...

Dr. Gregory V. Smith is a member of the Morgellons Research Foundation's Medical Advisory Board. According to the foundations website, he suffers from Morgellons Disease, as does his wife, Judy, who is a nurse.

According to the website, Dr. Smith stated, "Reports that suggest this disorder may progress and cause autoimmune disorders and psychiatric disorders are frightening." That sounds a lot like Lyme Disease, doesn't it?

I prefer to turn that statement around and say it like this. An autoimmune disorder can progress into a set of symptoms that cause one to believe they have a mysterious disease. It still sounds like Lyme Disease, but now it could be Lyme Disease for some, and Sarcoidosis for others. It could also be any number of other diseases.

It doesn't help matters for the Morgellons Research Foundation, or message boards such as Lymebusters, to initiate and/or reinforce the idea that Morgellons is an unidentified emerging disease. There's other, officially recognized diseases and disorders, and they can also account for the various symptoms.

Another doctor, Dr. Doug Buckner, is the Associate Director of the same foundation. According to the MRF, he has an extensive background in biology and has suffered with Morgellons Disease for over fours years. What is it about these people that keeps them from accepting one of the already recognized diseases? Is it that they don't believe that any of these recognized diseases can account for the symptoms? This man should, if he has an extensive background in biology.

Could it be that they cannot accept a disease that takes as long to cure as Lyme Disease? Maybe they can't accept the thought that they have one that is incurable. Do they think that a new disease would be any different?

It is not the Scientific Method to begin with a hypothesis and set out to gather all the possible evidence in support one's preconceived notions, while rejecting all evidence to the contrary. Yet, this is what is happening with the Morgellons Research Foundation.

Mary M. Leitao is the foundation's Executive Director. The foundation was founded by her. According to the MRF website, it was founded "for" her son Drew and all Morgellons sufferers. According to Leitao, Drew has had Morgellons Disease since he was two years old. He is now seven.

The child was diagnosed with Eczema, another immune disorder, but Leitao, apparently believing she knew more than his doctor, set out to prove that he had a disease she calls Morgellons. By now she probably has the child thoroughly convinced that he has a disease, even more strange than Eczema, one of unknown etiology.

Out of all these people it appears that only one has all of his mental faculties intact, and that is Drew, a seven year old child. But what is this doing to this child's psyche? After studying what led up to the founding of the Morgellons Research Foundation it seems obvious that it was not created for Drew, but rather for the child's mother.

It shouldn't take but a single visit to the Lymebusters website to figure out that most of the people that regularly post on the website have mental disorders. Although there's a variety of physical disorders, many of which have already been diagnosed and ignored, it will probably take years to sort out the mental problems.

Should we think any differently about the members of the Morgellons Research Foundation? If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, chances are pretty good that it's a duck.

Tall Cotton

 
At 8:59 AM, Blogger Tall Cotton said...

Or a quack!!

 
At 9:01 AM, Blogger Tall Cotton said...

Or Pinocchio!!

 
At 9:06 AM, Blogger Aherah said...

"But until then, some precision is required on your part if you wish to make extraordinary claims."

I'm not a scientist. I don't know how to conduct valid research on myself. I don't really want to...I want the experts to do that. All I can claim to KNOW is that fibers and various crap come out of my skin. That's all. The other symptoms I believe are related, as does my doctor. What's a girl to do? What type of precision would you like. You've already see a plethora of video documentation of other Morgies, yet you still cling to this dust theory. Wow, your denial is deep and firm. The research will be done. Then we'll be able to talk.

"The point is that fibers are changed by various things such as lotion and bleach, and that needs to be accounted for when attempting to identify fibers."

Why isn't every cloth-wearing person in the world getting these cloth particles in their skin? Why isn't the world itching and ulcerating like the Morgies? Why are the fibers only blue/black, red, teal/green, white, and clear? Why not yellow? Why not purple? People do wear yellow and purple clothes you know. THINK!

 
At 9:17 AM, Blogger Aherah said...

"Or Pinocchio!!" Oh yes your name-calling is so effective. Your points come across so much clearer when you attempt to misrepresent your opponent through name calling. Again, you all are so big on proof here. Where's your proof that I lie? Is this a political campaign because you sound like a politician. Can you actually say something of substance?

ah

 
At 9:34 AM, Blogger Smileykins said...

"Unless" someone is suffering with an illness they truly don't know they have, deluding themselves into thinking they're more in-the-know about what is wrong with them than the doctors who have repeatedly told them...then, humankind happens to have a big problem on our hands...which we DO.

Believers in morgellons disease vehemently criticizing Margellons, defending their behaviors, attempting to tear people down, issuing warnings that we'll all be sorry someday, and we should be preparing to take measures to prevent our own victimizations of their "disease", fantasizing that we all need to receive a hug from them, are more indicators of delusive thoughts.

The notion that generalizations made about the group of people at lymebusters doing harmful things to themselves is exaggerated, is another part of the picture. Even the founder has finally issued a mild warning.

A delusional illness, by any other name, is still a delusional illness.

 
At 9:43 AM, Blogger Smileykins said...

If Tall Cotton were to waste his time copying and pasting your specific untruths here, Aherah, you would be just as blind to them now, as you have always been when I have tried to get you to realize anything you've asked for in the past. You are not our job to fix, here, anymore than you've ever been, but I think you are deserving of a special column where people can respond to you with futile suggestions.

 
At 9:50 AM, Blogger Tall Cotton said...

Pinocchio,

You said that there would be no more interruptions from you. You said farewell. That's just one of the "many" lies you've told. I don't know if you realize it, but one of your "mental" problems is that you are a pathological liar. Do you really want me to prove it?

Tall Cotton

 
At 10:40 AM, Blogger Aherah said...

Did I say it was farwell forever? Can you prove that was my intention? That would be too easy for you. There continues to be a tremendous amount of irony (if not humor) when drug addicts and schzophrenics call other people crazy liars. Yeah, right...

Smileykins/adapted/Mary, why do you continue to believe that all the doctors think us delusional after you had just seen the piece on CNN? My doctor doesn't think I'm delusional. Dr. Stricker doesn't think people are delusional. The number of rational doctors who have begun to accept the reality of this disease is growing. Get your head out of the sand already!

Margie, because there is no evidence that Morgellons exists doesn't mean that it does not exist either. It simiply means there is no evidence either way. Obviously, I know that they will find evidence when they look.

Margie, what did you think of the preliminary findings of Dr. Vitaly Citovsky? Don't start with the "cotton has plant genes too" business.

ah

 
At 10:50 AM, Blogger Tall Cotton said...

Pinocchio,

I didn't say that you said it would be farewell forever. I said that you said farewell. You conveniently left out any mention of the fact that you said that there would be no more interruptions from you. This isn't about your intentions. I knew you couldn't stay away. It's about what you say and how you contradict yourself. And it's not just occasionally!!

Tall Cotton

 
At 10:53 AM, Blogger Smileykins said...

Now, I know the answer to this, Aherah, but for the sake of all those concerned in your life, I wish you had the ability to examine it for yourself. No, I'm not even going to waste time saying it. However, the transparent pathology of your mind shows in everything you say. "Everything you say", not just a little here and there.

 
At 11:54 AM, Blogger Margellons said...

Why isn't every cloth-wearing person in the world getting these cloth particles in their skin? Why isn't the world itching and ulcerating like the Morgies? Why are the fibers only blue/black, red, teal/green, white, and clear? Why not yellow? Why not purple? People do wear yellow and purple clothes you know. THINK!

Good questions. Firstly everyone is getting fibers ON their skin. Everyone with lesions will have fibers in their lesions. Fibers are everyhwere.

As to why not everyone has fibers emerging from unbroken skin - well it's not really clear that this happens at all - it's never been captured on video (although I'd be happy to follow any links you have there). It seems like it would be easy to capture on video, based on the various descriptions.

The world is not itching and ulcerating like the Morgies, because fibers generally don't cause disease.

Why not yellow or purple? I did not find any yellow or purple fibers on my skin, but those are fairly uncommon colors (based on our closet here). Yellow fibers look white under many lights. When I get my microscope up and running again I might answer that one better.

Still, if you look at morgellonsusa you will see fibers of all colors, including purple and yellow. I'm sure there are other examples of all colors.

 
At 12:13 PM, Blogger Margellons said...

What are we to make of this:

"Dr. Vitaly Citovsky, a Suny Stoney Brook Biologist, says he might have the answer. He says he found a gene that only exists in plants in the skin of the morgellons patients."

Sounds fascinating. Is this ALL the morgellons patients? How many? Was there a non-morgellons control group of equal size? It looked from the film clip like he was just holding up one sample and indicating that "this was the one with plant genes".

What "gene that only exists in plants" was this? When he says "plants", does this mean just the plantae kingdom, or does that include fungi?. How were the skin samples cleaned of plant based emollients which are absorbed by the skin?

That little tidbit of information was interesting - but without details it's useless.

 
At 1:04 PM, Blogger Linda said...

My mother had it. I'll recount her story, since she's not too good on the computer. She had the itching and lesions and crawly feeling for over 2 years. She thought the problem may be parasites; her doctor said it was in her head. She is now with a different doctor. She changed from powder to liquid laundry soap, got rid of a wooden table, and changed the AC filter more often. I don't know if that helped, but her symptoms gradually went away. She said she had kept samples of skin for a while and that they continued to grow fibers (some red) even when in the jar. She said she tried everything to stop itching, but the only thing that worked was topical clear iodine. But even that was only temporary.

 
At 1:53 PM, Blogger Aherah said...

"Still, if you look at morgellonsusa you will see fibers of all colors, including purple and yellow. "

That is interesting. I hadn't paid much attention to that site before. I've never seen colors other than the ones I mentioned, and I have clothing in yellow, purple, brown, etc. I don't ever see fibers those colors coming from my INTACT SKIN.

Thanks for sharing your story Linda. I'm sorry for your mother's torment. You won't find much love and understanding from this bunch though.

ah

 
At 1:55 PM, Blogger Smileykins said...

To address "a" plant gene presence...

http://tinyurl.com/fcwrr

Morgellons Fiber Study Summary

Jenny Haverty, Clinical Microbiologist Scientist

Excerpt:

In addition, I found rare spore-like structures that were football
shaped, 12.8 microns long, some of which had a septate-like division across the center.
Also found were very rare structures slightly resembling the asymmetrical spores of
Alternaria species (a fungus)...these were 48.64 microns long
(Alternaria spores are 7 to 10 microns wide and 23-34 microns long).
These structures were both amber colored.
I also observed needle-like structures resembling crystals in this sample.

Alternia Species:

http://tinyurl.com/hlp7b

It causes Phaeohyphomycosis:

http://tinyurl.com/ekx96

Way back when, Tall Cotton identified Wangiella, and informed Mary Leitao...no reply.

Read and look at the differentials:

http://tinyurl.com/eehoc

(Haha, this is making me feel like I'm back on a morgie message board.)

There is no such thing as "morgellons disease".

 
At 1:58 PM, Blogger Aherah said...

"That little tidbit of information was interesting - but without details it's useless."

Good questions Margie. Since you claim to be interested in the "T"ruth, why don't you question the good doctor yourself? His info is public. Ask him to elaborate. Question him hard. I'd like to know how he arrived at this conclusion as well.

ah

 
At 2:14 PM, Blogger Smileykins said...

Geeze, why can YOU not ask? When a person seeks their own answers, why try enlisting someone else speak on your behalf? To receive the love you're after, treat your behavioral issues. Seek things for yourself, and you'll find all your answers, right there within yourself.

 
At 2:23 PM, Blogger Aherah said...

"It causes Phaeohyphomycosis...way back when, Tall Cotton identified Wangiella...There is no such thing as 'morgellons disease'"

So he believed himself to be infected with this fungi, but now he and you feel you were delusional. Again, I am totally confused by you. I also am willing to speculate fungi, but I am not willing to say that it is NOTHING. How you two go from one extreme to the other is beyond me, unless you're still wrapped-up in your "it's a curse" theory. Curses may go away if your ignore them, whereas fungi infections won't go away as easily.

ah

 
At 2:27 PM, Blogger Aherah said...

I didn't say I wouldn't inquire. But also, I didn't start a blog on the topic of Morgellons. If Margellons is truly interested in getting to the "T"ruth, he should investigate all avenues, not just the ones that confirm what you and he want to believe.

ah

 
At 2:33 PM, Blogger Tall Cotton said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
At 2:48 PM, Blogger Tall Cotton said...

Pinocchio,

I didn't identify Wangiella from my own specimens. I identified it in one of the MRF's SEMS micrographs. It's very obvious that this micrograph displayed a Wangiella hypha. Other MRF micrographs did not.

I never once said that I didn't have real lesions. I did, and they were quite grotesque. Neither have I said that the Morgies don't either. I said that they, you included, are DOP. There is a big difference.

Tall Cotton

 
At 2:52 PM, Blogger Smileykins said...

Tall Cotton did not have
Phaeohyphomycosis. I tried answering your mass confusion over the presence of plant genes in some of the ______ who believe they have morgellons disease.

You would not be so confused all of the time, if you treated your problems and if you read those links, as well, that I put there, just for you, little babe in the woods, damsel in distress.

Can you not consider creating a "Help Linda Blog" of your own? That way you could receive all the attention you need, and not inflict your problems onto others. I might even visit there, but this is not a place to "fix" you.

 
At 3:10 PM, Blogger Aherah said...

Tall Fuzz, I repeat, you don't know what we are or are not. You can only know that you have been diagnosed with severe mental/drug problems, and I HAVE NOT. You keep telling me to listen to my doc, why don't you? Crazy, bug popping (smileykins) drug addicts shouldn't be attempting to diagnose anybody, much less people they don't know. You certainly do nothing to boost the credibility of this blog either.

You may not like what I say, but your attempts to derail my arguments under the guise that I'm not understanding you is transparent. Name calling only makes you appear unable to maintain an argument without resorting to childish tactics, which you are.


Namaste

Until next time
ah

 
At 3:12 PM, Blogger Tall Cotton said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
At 3:58 PM, Blogger Tall Cotton said...

Pinocchio,

Nothing you say bothers me. Nothing you say is on track. How could anyone derail your arguments? I don't know what makes you think I need to be in someone's physical presence in order to know they have mental problems. You are a narcissist with a borderline personality. You are also delusional. Your mental disorders are quite severe. Go see a psychiatrist. Ask him if I'm not correct. Just because you don't know who you are doesn't mean that others can't see through your masks. You are so transparent it's pathetic. And if you don't like the name, Pinocchio, then quit lying. It's that simple. Your presence here doesn't bother me, but don't you realize it would be better for your own sanity to go somewhere where people like what you represent. I don't know where that would be, except with the nuts at lymebusters, but I don't think you'll find it on this blog.

Tall Cotton

 
At 4:11 PM, Blogger Smileykins said...

Aherah, you said a few minutes ago, "Again, I am totally confused by you."

Now, you've said, "You may not like what I say, but your attempts to derail my arguments under the guise that I'm not understanding you is transparent."

"Name calling"? But you just recently mentioned playing this blog like a video game, pushing people's hot-buttons.

It's sad that you think we've derailed you, and weird that you harbor so much venom for both of us, past and present.

Now, if you were really all that confused by Tall Cotton's and my histories, which you claim on such a regular basis haunts you, causing you to be unable to think straight, you would read our blog, so that you could understand, or have someone translate it to you.

You've made too many predjudiced assumptions leading your little girl side of that pretty obvious appearing borderline personality disorder (for one thing) of yours to make you lash out, when I've tried appealing to the adult in you through invitations to read our summaries.

Before you came onto Margellons blog, you had said on lymebusters message board that when you had the time, you were coming here to "defend yourself".

"Defend yourself"?.....Nobody had ever said anything about you, but then here you showed up, in full attack mode. Look at what you've done, ever since. Go on, look at your behaviors here, look at all the chaos in your comments....anything to get attention, negative or positive, it doesn't matter, just as long as you get a spotlight on yourself.

And that was quite an analogy you gave here, on your opinions of men and women/doctors and patients.

You appear to have serious conceptional problems because of your lowered cognitive skills. I noticed that all along, but you want so hard to be viewed as a "critical thinker". Actually, you just want to be viewed as an adult, but you lack the skills. I don't know what else to tell you, other than recommending that you be treated for it.

I can't diagnose you, but I am offering suggestions in hopes of you thinking about it. I know you're miserable.

 
At 4:39 PM, Blogger Tall Cotton said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
At 6:33 PM, Blogger Tall Cotton said...

OMG! Look what I pulled out of my lesion!

CLICK

 
At 6:43 PM, Blogger Aherah said...

Smileykins, I am confused about what you do or do not believe because I think you are confused by what you do or do not believe.

Tall Fuzz, perhaps you are delusional about those lesions too.

 
At 6:53 PM, Blogger Aherah said...

"I know you're miserable."

Uhhh...no I'm not. Again, you don't know shit about me. I've got three gorgeous kids whom I adore. I've been happily married for many years now. I thoroughly enjoy my career. I'll be forty in couple of months, and I still get carded when I order a drink. I make plans for a happy future filled with goals. I just get pissed when this disease interferes with my happiness--it doesn't make me miserable unless the symptoms get bad, or my kids’ symptoms get bad. A year and a half ago (when we met on Lymebusters), I was miserable; I'm not now. Please don't make assumptions about me based upon your bigoted view of people who have this disease.

ah

 
At 6:55 PM, Blogger Aherah said...

"You appear to have serious conceptional problems because of your lowered cognitive skills."

Oh really? Aren't you a silly little woman. It'll take more than that to shake my self-confidence, but feel free to keep trying. It's funny.

ah

 
At 6:59 PM, Blogger Smileykins said...

Well, if that isn't one of the strangest things I believe I've ever heard. Really, you're dead serious? Total strangers are seriously an important concern in your life? If you're dwelling on us, for whatever your causes are, well, you need to share that with a doctor. Will this help you any(?), because you apparently do not read much to satisfy your worries and concerns...

We both had:
Secondary Organic Delusional Parasitosis where there is an Underlying Physical Illness present. I don't know anything else to try assisting you, I swear to God, I don't, and I never have. You've got a block...a mental b-l-o-c-k, for one major thing. Please, talk to a doctor.

 
At 7:13 PM, Blogger Smileykins said...

Johnboy? Gimme a comment! Margellons, I am so sorry. Aherah, I'm afraid I've already known far more than I've ever wanted to know about you. You're here with your "thing" you have for Tall Cotton and me. I don't know what you want from us. I don't know what you want from anyone, without crossing over into the topic of mental health. Can you elucidate on our blog, please, as I've pleaded with you to so many times to already?

 
At 7:18 PM, Blogger Aherah said...

You're effect is equivalent to a filibuster. You spew so much ludicrous crap, one doesn't know where to begin, or how much to bother with reading. There is no "we" in "me". You and I share nothing except a few words on a message board a year ago. I can completely believe that you were/are delusional, along with a long list of other issues.

I wonder why you can't attack the argument instead of the person. Trying to distract from the topic perhaps?

I'm done playing with you, you just write too much that is not worth reading.

Later,
Aherah

 
At 7:24 PM, Blogger JeeezeLouise said...

Wow

 
At 7:43 PM, Blogger Smileykins said...

You refuse to grasp the purpose of Margellon's blog and he's been polite in telling you...

"And as for if you have fibers coming out of your skin - I have no idea. I don't know what disease(s) you have. I don't know if the fibers come out of your skin, or if you are mistaken, or delusional. I don't know anything about your particular case.
No disrespect to the reality of your situation - but to my overall argument, your situation is irrelevant."

My posts, nor anyone else's were EVER "geared towards you" to begin with. You have extremely serious issues and you either can't accept it, or you delight in it. Heavens!! I'm not meaning to play any games.
You're a major disruption, I'm sure, wherever you happen to be.

 
At 9:32 PM, Blogger Margellons said...

Aherah wrote:

Since you claim to be interested in the "T"ruth, why don't you question the good doctor yourself? His info is public. Ask him to elaborate. Question him hard. I'd like to know how he arrived at this conclusion as well."

I already did. This is what I wrote this morning:

Professor Citovsky,

I maintain a web site dedicated to investigating the Morgellons phenomenon, from a skeptical point of view.

http://morgellonswatch.blogspot.com/

I was very interested to hear that you had detected a plant-specific gene in the skin of Morgellons patients. I was wondering if you have any more information on these finding that you are prepared to release? Can you give me any information on the scope of your current findings - how many samples were taken? Were there control samples, etc.

Regards,

...

I try to follow up any source of information. I was having quite extensive exchange with Wymore, but he cut it off. Probably too busy.

 
At 4:10 PM, Blogger Smileykins said...

08/24/06 At 6:43 PM, Aherah said....

"Smileykins, I am confused about what you do or do not believe because I think you are confused by what you do or do not believe."

08/25/06 Not in the least, but I sure hate that you are. I'll try being clear and concise (as so many times in the past, for all the good it does you):

With your mother bearing witness....

March 2005: You were itching due to your dry skin that your doctor had told you to use lotion/cream on. Then you scratched. You got what you called, "blue fuzz" underneath your nails. You looked, and your legs had become blue where you had "excess lotion" (meaning that you didn't have blue in the tracks where you'd scraped with your nails). Who, that has ever worn blue-denim jeans, has not done this and never thought anything about it?
1+1=Blue

 
At 8:49 PM, Blogger abac68 said...

Smilykins - To assist you with your allergy problems I suggest you give NAET Oriental Medicine a try. It really does work, but unfortunately doesn't get rid of Morgellons.

Dr Nambudripad Allergy Elimination Techniques http://www.naet.com/

 
At 9:56 PM, Blogger Smileykins said...

I appreciate that, abac68, but I don't have any problems with skin allergies. Having had them a large part of my life, I know my triggers, and avoid them as much as possible. I've been in remission from eczema for approximately 20 years, as well.

I'm so sorry that the advice you recommended to me can't assist you any, and I sure hope that there is something that can very soon.

 
At 10:20 PM, Blogger Smileykins said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
At 10:59 PM, Blogger Aherah said...

You keep coming back to me and then you whine for assistance because you say I have a "thing" for you. If you don't want to get into it with me, shut up (I doubt you're capable of that). I recall you became a lymebusters "ultimate member" in a matter of weeks due to all of your incessant dribble-posting. You've said your fair share of lies here too. I read some old blogs today. Did you actually say this?

"Morgellons, in the minds of most morgellonites posting on message boards they are paranoid about everything, including the food and clothing industry."

You are the person who announced on lymebusters that we shouldn't consume canola oil because something about it comes from the same mustard plant that is used in the production of toxic gases. Boy, did one Morgie put you in your place for that paranoid bit of misinformation. I've come to realize that when you and Tall Fuzz talk about the crazy Morgies, you are talking about yourselves, your experiences, and your illness. You continue to transfer your sick experiences/perceptions onto the rest of us. That said, I wonder if when you tell these silly anecdotal stories, if you are actually revealing something about your own troubled soul:

"I used to work for many years with a woman who had a lot of things going on with her state of mental health. One, was that she had an inferiority complex which caused her to pretend to understand bizarre things that no one else could. In her mind, it elevated her above all those whom she knew couldn't possibly understand. It was very sad to witness the embarrassment she'd create for herself, never suspecting that she'd ever be asked to enlighten the rest of us. She was compelled to repeat the behavior, never learning from the previous events."

This is a confession, isn't it.


And now,

"Who, that has ever worn blue-denim jeans, has not done this and never thought anything about it?"

Have you seen me wearing blue jeans? You couldn't have--I rarely wear them. I wear feminine little dresses most of the time, no nylons. In any case, it was about 110 degrees outside; nobody was wearing jeans.

Among the things I've realized by reading some previous posts, is that you and Fuzz do have a hard time forgetting your little Morgellons nightmare:

"I've watched many of these "so-called" hairs jettison out of my skin. They shot several inches out of the skin in an instant, and remained attached at one end, as if they were hairs.

This occurred at times when I was highly toxic, and when a gelatinous material was pooled beneath or within the layers of skin.

The pore served as the orfice so that the hair-like filament could be extruded. The filament dried as it contacted the air.

These "hairs" were usually transparent. I don't know with a certainty, but I believe that these filaments were statically charged as they formed."

Now, why doesn't Fuzz just say he was delusional about the whole thing? He didn't say delusional when Margie asked him if anyone else saw it--he said they did. Yes, trying to sort out what you believe from what you don't believe is somewhat of tangled task.

You are like a little girl who must close her eyes tight and tell herself that ghosts to not exist, Morgellons do not exist. Close your eyes tight Mary, and maybe the boggie fiberman will go away if you will it away hard enough.

In any case, Mary, I don't dislike you, hard as you may try, but I don't hold much credence in what you think or say either. You see, I don't think I'm the one who needs help.

Now you can continue to rant about how crazy I AM.

------------------------------------

On another note, I think I got a better sense of you as well Margie. I know we've met before, only now you do a better job of maintaining a cool exterior. Still, I think, all in all, I like you better than before I had read everything. It's too bad your fungi blogs didn't go anywhere. There we might have been able to get somewhere that would have been truly helpful to the Morgies. If it weren't for your two simley fuzzy buddies, I might actually appreciate some of your work. They just get in the way of productive conversation.

Respectfully yours,
Aherah

 
At 11:13 PM, Blogger Margellons said...

Thanks Aherah. But I'm not sure where we might have "met" before though.

With the fungi comment, did you mean some of my early posts here, or some other blog? This has been my only blog that mentioned fungi. If it's another blog, can I get a link - sounds interesting.

 
At 11:32 PM, Blogger Aherah said...

Margie, I thought we might have chatted on lymebusters, maybe not.

Here's your blog:

Sunday, April 09, 2006
Maybe Fungus

Maybe some suffers have fungus?

http://www.doctorfungus.org/mycoses/human/human_index.htm

Seems reasonable

Tinea actually has hyphae and spores and is very common

Less common is T. pulvinata.

There are 20 species of dermatophytes

posted by Margellons @ 11:32 PM

 
At 11:38 PM, Blogger Margellons said...

Right. I still stand by that post. Although I'm less inclined to think any significant portion of the cases have fibers from fungus. They simply look at lot more like fabric or cellulose fibers than fungus.

I have seen at least one photo album of a Morgellons beliver who clearly had Tinea. I have it myself and it can be quite gnarly, itchy and chronic. He had a lot of photos of flaking skin and pustules - tinea symptoms.

 
At 11:40 PM, Blogger Tall Cotton said...

Linda,

Smileykins is right. Canola oil is harmful. No one put her in her place. The Morgie was wrong, just as morgies are usually wrong. No one is transferring anything to you. You're as easy to read as a book. You are a very sick person, mentally. I hope you find help, but you aren't going to get much better until you quit pretending. You aren't a smart person, like you try to project. I don't care how how educated you are, you don't have a lick of common sense.

Now I know you will undoubtedly have something to say about my former drug use. No, it wasn't smart. But I havn't used drugs in two years. So say whatever you want. Think whatever you want. But don't think for one second that you are going to change any minds around here of anything. You have nothing to offer us, and we have nothing you want. If you would try half as hard to get well as you do trying to hang on to the disease you love, you would get well. You're real problems are mental.

Now, please go away. We don't like anything that you represent. You are a narcissist with a borderline personality. You are here to get the attention that you are so starved for, but we don't like you, and you don't like us. You are looking for respect and love, but you are neither respectable or loving. You could change if you would, but you'll never get well until you come down off that self-made pedistal and realize that you are sick, and I don't mean physical.

We are all well here, and we have the mental faculties and the education to help others. You are standing in the way, like a court jester, a nonsensical moron. And you are preventing others from getting help. You are obcessed with this group, and that's one of your many hang-ups, but you come here, not to build, but to tear down. You don't come to offer anyone healing. You come to sicken. You are also evil, but you know that. Your Father is Satan, whether you believe he exists or not.

Tall Cotton

 
At 11:43 PM, Blogger Smileykins said...

"Respectfully", hmm?

I would like for you to be well, so that everyone you're in contact with can also benefit.

Yesterday.....

"Please don't make assumptions about me based upon your bigoted view of people who have this disease."

My opinion of you, which I don't base on assumptions, is way worse than others with your disease, to be frank about it. Since last year, after revealing so much of yourself, as well as here, when you said...

"Tall Fuzz, I repeat, you don't know what we are or are not. You can only know that you have
been diagnosed with severe mental/drug problems, and I HAVE NOT. You keep telling me to listen to my doc, why don't you? Crazy, bug popping (smileykins) drug addicts shouldn't be attempting to diagnose anybody, much less people they don't know. You certainly do nothing to boost the
credibility of this blog either."?

There you went, again, with your typical "we" (as well as with your "ME, ME, ME" thing again), saying...

"There is no 'we' in
'me'."

I meant, "we", as in "Tall Cotton and I".

"I wonder why you can't attack the argument instead of the person. Trying to distract from the topic perhaps?"

I am not here to argue. Your persistent interference with blatantly false accusations and blaming us so often for your confusion.

a. We never got diagnosed
b. We aren't drug addicts.
c. We aren't crazy.
d. We're Christians too, like it or not.

You're almost enough to make a preacher curse. Haha.

You got carded ordering a drink? OMG, you're an alcoholic, Aherah.

Now, do you see how ridiculous I would be to play on "your level"? Why is it that you "want to play"? Think hard about that.

P.S. I believe the Canadian was Fighorfly, and Patti had also thought I'd fallen for a little Canola Oil hoax. I believe the FDA over them, but should I have argued? I haven't the same nature as you.

You're always declaring your confusion, well, you've done nothing but show more of it. I am tired of telling you to take all of your grievances against me to Tall Cotton's and my blog. Keep personally attacking me, I'll keep setting you straight. You came here doing it. While you claim no to read my lengthy comments, if you would, perhaps you would quit making the same mistakes. It's doubtful though.

"ME"....whine?

 
At 11:44 PM, Blogger Aherah said...

When my oldest son was three, he had some fungus covering his entire back and some of his front. Doctor said ringworm, but on his whole back? How? It sparkled with a blue tint when he played in the backyard shritless. He was placed on nystatin for about two months. When the stuff dried up, his skin shed like snowflakes flying. I did not see fibers on him at this time, and I did not believe that my issue was his...until much later. I wonder about the fungus thing, as do others.

 
At 11:57 PM, Blogger Aherah said...

"We're Christians too, like it or not."

I won't ever claim an allegiance to something I can't follow; you should do the same. Have you been acting Christian? Really? I guess that makes you a hypocrite then. Or, perhaps, you are Christian like those child molesters Dateline NBC keeps airing. They all claim to be Christians too. I remember a song from when I used to attend church; it went, "they will know we are Christians by our love...by our love...” How much love you puttin' out these days Mary? (not talking about the kind of love you do with Tall Fuzz either). I just don't think many of us are feeling it, but you can always "turn the other cheek" and "love thy neighbor as thyself." Maybe you have been and that's the problem. You don't even love yourself. Christian isn't a belonging, it's a way of life. Stop stoning the Morgies and act Christian then.

What time is it in Virginia? Shouldn’t you be in bed. Take a pill.

ah

 
At 11:57 PM, Blogger Smileykins said...

You STILL cannot grasp what the purpose of Tall Cotton's and Smileykins' mission is, Aherah. But we have none for you....
YOU are a morgie. We have told our experiences to assist "other people" in the hopes they don't fall for the confusion that having such symptoms as those that are associated with "morgellons disease" can bring. You are a true-blue morgie...
personifying it beautifully.

 
At 12:03 AM, Blogger Aherah said...

"Now, please go away."

You dare to call lymebusters an exclusionist cult?

I'll make a deal. If Margie wants me to leave, if he asks me to leave, I will. Easy as that.

The ball is in your court.

ah

 
At 12:05 AM, Blogger Smileykins said...

And what do you know of how a Christian should act? Your little high school dopehead friend is your point of reference.
I am saved, and you aren't. And I can save no morgies from themselves. I can tell the truth, and that is all I can do.

 
At 12:12 AM, Blogger Aherah said...

"And what do you know of how a Christian should act? Your little high school dopehead friend is your point of reference.
I am saved, and you aren't. And I can save no morgies from themselves. I can tell the truth, and that is all I can do."

Even I am astounded by how right I was! You're trying to save us from A CURSE!

 
At 12:12 AM, Blogger Smileykins said...

Margellons said from the beginning that his blog's mission was not to change the minds' of your crowd. You said what your purpose of coming here was for, however, you keep attacking Tall Cotton and me, without reading our background on our blog, and keep blaming us for all your bewilderment. I repeat for you to take your grievances to our blog, and you can't grasp that anymore than you can grasp anything else. You're an asshole, and then refer to us here as "unfriendly friends".

 
At 12:14 AM, Blogger Smileykins said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
At 12:20 AM, Blogger Aherah said...

Margie, you do know that your two biggest fans believe that Morgellons is a curse cast on us by...what's that guys name again...SATAN. I guess that makes Morgies Satanists by virtue of being ill. So, where does that place AIDS victims then? This is way more juicy than any of the ridiculous stuff posted on Lymebusters. What a hoot!

Yep, I'm going to hell in a fibery handbasket. FYI Smiles and Tall Fuzz, that's my problem.

AHERAH!

 
At 12:22 AM, Blogger abac68 said...

Smilykins & Tall Cotton – I agree with aherah you are not acting Christian like at all.

This is the way I see it ….. You two and Margellons up against 4512 registered Morgellons sufferers worldwide.

I don’t think so….

 
At 12:22 AM, Blogger Smileykins said...

Dip. I'm only hoping to do as Margellons said...to prevent others from falling down the slippery slope. Most morgie people truly "like" having their disease, even though they aren't even aware of it, and I know that. Categories 1 and 2. Tall Cotton and I were in category 3, and we didn't need a doctor to diagnose it.

 
At 12:25 AM, Blogger Smileykins said...

Well, why don't you lost souls lay it right out here, and tell me how a Christian is supposed to be. Please do.

 
At 1:13 AM, Blogger Smileykins said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
At 1:32 AM, Blogger Smileykins said...

I know I haven't told both of you enough times, already, "take it to OUR blog" where your complaints with us, belong.
"Tall Cotton and Smileykins"

"Religious Undertones?"

"Forsaken by God?"

 
At 7:21 AM, Blogger QueenBugB said...

Aberha.... people with this condition DO soak in bleach, zap themselves with electricity(there is thread upon thread about "zappers") and use Rife machines, more and more and more. Just because you don't use these things doesn't mean the majority doesn't either.

It annoys me when people say "Why don't the doctors LOOK and SEE!!!!!" Though, my quote is spelled much better than I usually see this. Doctors look, and doctors see. They see people hurting themselves, and abusing chemicals, and absorbed in the delusions that what they have is not an ordinary condition such as eczema, but a mysterious government plot.

 
At 7:27 AM, Blogger Margellons said...

In my one flurry of deleting comments a while ago, it was just this kind of pointless personal argument I was trying to prune out. However I was uncomfortable with the role of censor, so I resolved to delete no more.

I don't really have a big problem with it - as few people will read this far anyway. But it's still a pointless argument - both sides call the other crazy and mean, both sides fuel the fire.

I personally don't give a hoot if you are crazy, mean, or Christian. Individual situations have no weight here. I'm looking at the evidence. Just because someone is crazy does not mean they can't get sick.

What I'm interested in is determining what the real evidence is behind Morgellons. Individual data points are individually meaningless. You've got to look at the big picture.

If you want someone to stop arguing with you, then stop arguing with them. Insults should be ignored. Potentially damaging lies need only a brief factual rebuttal. Factual claims need checking.

 
At 9:04 AM, Blogger Aherah said...

"If you want someone to stop arguing with you, then stop arguing with them."

I believe that was my suggestion too:

"You keep coming back to me and then you whine for assistance because you say I have a "thing" for you. If you don't want to get into it with me, shut up (I doubt you're capable of that)."


Margie said, "Individual situations have no weight here."

Not completely true. It helps me understand Simles and Tall Fuzz's perspective much better now that I know they believe they are on a mission from God to save the world from Morgies. If they were the scientists involved in trying to understand the disease/syndrome, I'd be very concerned. Personal motivations always play a part.

In any case, I attempted at a civil discussion with you until it was infiltrated by smiles, again.

ah

 
At 9:05 AM, Blogger Aherah said...

"If you want someone to stop arguing with you, then stop arguing with them."

I believe that was my suggestion too:

"You keep coming back to me and then you whine for assistance because you say I have a "thing" for you. If you don't want to get into it with me, shut up (I doubt you're capable of that)."


Margie said, "Individual situations have no weight here."

Not completely true. It helps me understand Simles and Tall Fuzz's perspective much better now that I know they believe they are on a mission from God to save the world from Morgies. If they were the scientists involved in trying to understand the disease/syndrome, I'd be very concerned. Personal motivations always play a part.

In any case, I attempted at a civil discussion with you until it was infiltrated by smiles, again.

ah

 
At 9:14 AM, Blogger Aherah said...

Queensbugb,

Let's pretend all of the self-inflicted damage is true. Why would people do such things to themseleves?

ah

 
At 11:05 AM, Blogger Tall Cotton said...

"Sometimes skin-picking is preceded by a high level of tension and a strong "itch" or "urge". Likewise, skin-picking may be followed by a feeling of relief or pleasure. A CSP episode may be a conscious response to anxiety or depression, but is frequently done as an unconscious habit."

COMPULSIVE SKIN PICKING

 
At 12:28 PM, Blogger Smileykins said...

"Individual situations have no weight here. I'm looking at the evidence." "Individual data points are individually meaningless." Margellons, I understand, and I'm sorry for misinterpreting and
interfering with the goal of your efforts. I also apologize for inappropriately responding to harrassments that have ensued.

Upon early viewings of comments from morgie people on your blog, I'd interjected that they couldn't grasp the reality of the situation. When you'd replied that it wasn't your intention to try changing any such minds, but to hopefully reach people who may just be hearing of "morgellons disease" for the first time and be assistive towards preventing them from falling for it, I'd felt that by contributing my individual experience, it could possibly lend a helping hand.

I also have strong opinions, that given the history of how such a thing even came about, and with as many diagnoses involved, repeatedly, for the bulk of people believing they have this, that their physicians were all correct.

Not that they aren't terrribly ill, and not that other things aren't being medically addressed and attended to. First things, first, though. One cannot get to point B through complete avoidance of point A. They interpret what they consider fear in their doctors, (valid, to a point), but it serves to further solidify their delusion, unfortnately.

I appreciate your intentions, and whatever direction your blog evolves into I wish you success in your endeavors. I'm so sorry, and I know that you're very busy, but please feel free, if you do have time, to delete where I've caused interference in your goal and I'll refrain in the future with any references to my past individual experience with symptoms of this.

For the record, to clear up the recent falsehood attributed to me, I have never said morgies have a curse. The 2nd and 3rd links I provided in my last post do show a personal concern of that, but I have never been on any such mission as to save, nor to exorcise, anyone. I gave sound health advice to people on morgie message boards, and, before I knew any better, tried guiding them away from hurting themselves.

I'm not associated with any group, that when a generalization is made about them, it makes me to go into a bad place and do bad things. I stated here, that this phenomenon is indeed strange territory and I certainly don't have a handbook on how to deal with morgie people.

 
At 1:52 PM, Blogger Tall Cotton said...

CNN

OSU, Tulsa Doctors Examine Unknown 'Strings'

Friday, June 23, 2006; Posted: 9:25 AM(CDT)

The text version of the CNN news story begins by stating, "It sounds like something from the Twilight Zone. People claiming to have strings, not hairs, growing out of their skin." I've heard several "Morgies" claim that their experience seemed like something out of the Twilight Zone. I remember when I thought the same thing, but that was before I got a better understanding of what was happening.

The article states, "Doctors and nurses say even they can't believe what they're seeing." Is this more sensationalism on the part of the news reporter and/or the attending medical practitioner. If these people "can't believe what they are seeing, why on earth would they believe they are seeing it.

Dr. Raphael Stricker, who treats morgellon's patients, says it's really very bizarre to see the strings. Nurse savely, a nurse practitioner who works with morgellon's patients, says, "This didn't seem like anything I'd ever seen that was coming out of the human body." Maybe they need their heads examined, ya' reckon?

Time for more sensationalism. "So what are these 'strings' and why are they lurking under people's skin? Disease detectives around the country are baffled." The term, "lurking", presupposes that thes fibers are alive, and even have intent. That's certainly not been extablished. And what, exactly, are "disease detectives"?

Carol Arledge's dermatologist told her patient, "If it doesn't get better, you need to find a psychiatrist.'" I can't help but wonder if she did, but I think I know the answer to that one. She's a morgie.

Doctors at OSU have seen about 25 patients, and say they are convinced morgellon's is real. But, symptoms can be real, and still not be the result of a new disease. But the medical establishment says that the OSU doctors are wrong, and OSU is by far outnumbered.

Dr. Noah Scheinfeld, from Columbia University, says morgellon's is not real. He says it's all in the patients head. I think "partly" in their heads would be a closer to the truth. But, to insure that I don't offend anyone, I admit that even this may not apply to all "Morgies".

The the news commentator states, "Delusion or disease, the threads of this argument continue on." Clearly this is being treated as a black or white issue, by doctors and laypersons alike, but it's obvious that this is not the case. Many of the physical symptoms are real, but it's also very obvious that many Morgies, if not all, have very serious mental disorders.

Tall Cotton

 
At 10:05 PM, Blogger Margellons said...

Update from Vitaly Citovsky, (the scientist on the CNN report). He says he did not find a plant gene, but a gene that belongs to a bacterium that normally
infects plants. Something similar to Agrobacterium tumefaciens which should please certain theorists, since it's "quorum sensing".

Still, he's not in a position to release any details, which means his initial findings cannot really be used to draw any conclusion - especially as we've no idea as to the scope or rigor of his study.

 
At 10:44 PM, Blogger Tall Cotton said...

Thanks for the information. That gene, in my opinion, could have come from practically anywhere since an open lesion is such a junk pile of material. As you know, however, this bacterium is used in bioengineering.

 
At 12:04 AM, Blogger Aherah said...

Agrobacterium tumefaciens

Sounds like a great title for a new blog entry, don't you think?

ah

 
At 2:53 AM, Blogger abac68 said...

The fibers entry the skin via the lymphatic system.

 
At 4:59 AM, Blogger Smileykins said...

abac68, could you explain the process for us, please?

 
At 5:27 AM, Blogger QueenBugB said...

"Let's pretend all of the self-inflicted damage is true. Why would people do such things to themseleves?

ah"

Anorexia, bulemia, obsessive-compulsive tendencies, why do people do these things to themselves?

Or are all mental health conditions merely the product of "the government" out to get you?

 
At 9:09 AM, Blogger Aherah said...

"Anorexia, bulemia, obsessive-compulsive tendencies, why do people do these things to themselves?"

So, the Morgies on the Lymebusters site have these disorders? You know this? How? Do all Morgies have these disorders or only those on Lymebusters?

ah

 
At 11:32 AM, Blogger JeeezeLouise said...

It was quite clear to me that QueenB cited "anorexia, bulemia, obsessive-compulsive tendencies" as other examples of self-destructive behaviour. I didn't think s/he was suggesting that Morgies also have those conditions, but rather was responding to your question "why would people do such things to themselves" with evidence that a lot of people do a lot of harmful things for reasons the rest of us can't quite understand.

It's not always all about you.

By the way, thanks for your advice about Diet Coke. However, you avoid diet sodas and have "Morgellons". I drink a couple Diet Cokes every day and do NOT have Morgellons. Now, I'm sure there's no link whatsoever, but I usually decline lifestyle advice from folks in worse shape than I. Thanks anyway.

 
At 11:42 AM, Blogger Smileykins said...

They do the self-multilations to try and "kill their morgies"

 
At 11:48 AM, Blogger Aherah said...

" with evidence that a lot of people do a lot of harmful things for reasons the rest of us can't quite understand."

Perhaps the answer is as simple as they are physically sick and are desparately seeking help in any form. Is it possible that they are willing to try ANYTHING to feel better? I think I read that Travis died from a toxic condition due an overconsuption of pain killers. It must be really awful feeling that kind of pain with no answers or solutions in site, eh? It might even drive you to do things to yourself that you would never have considered before, hoping to find some relief.

I wouldn't have commented about the diet coke had you not been acting in such a presuptuous manner yourself. You see, you do pollute your body in a manner that I would not.

ah

 
At 11:49 AM, Blogger Aherah said...

oops, sight

 
At 12:20 PM, Blogger Smileykins said...

Before I knew what was really going on at Lymebusters, I actually used to try to send a message to stop the self-mutilations, though, ladies.

I pleaded to not use blow-torches, to not use caustic liquids. I was told to leave them alone because they all knew exactly what they were doing, and I should not allow it to upset me. I told them they were making their skin do what it was!

They see cells from their own bodies and think they are something they need to KILL. Some even drink bleach.

Margellons cited a mere sampling on the topic, underneath the one concerning MRF's association with Lymebusters, on this blog.

 
At 1:31 PM, Blogger here_to_comment said...

Aherah said,

"Perhaps the answer is as simple as they are physically sick and are desparately seeking help in any form. Is it possible that they are willing to try ANYTHING to feel better? I think I read that Travis died from a toxic condition due an overconsuption of pain killers. It must be really awful feeling that kind of pain with no answers or solutions in site, eh? It might even drive you to do things to yourself that you would never have considered before, hoping to find some relief."

No simple answers with such situations-- when some-one is ill, and desperate, they're not in the best position to treat themselves. Desperation would be dangerous, don't you agree? You can see this on Lymebusters everyday. My problem with Lymebusters is that it adds to people's desperation.

When people look hard for signs of disease, they'll find not only those which exist, but some that do not. In desperation, they'll assume they must treat for this condition or that; they'll follow hunches. They can't tell if some eruption is the delayed effect of an extreme treatment in the past, or a sign of disease. They're complicating whatever disease they have.

Eventually, yes, they may begin to have delusions. People who are told (repeatedly by different providers) that they have delusional parasitosis have nothing to lose by trying the treatment. If they try bleach and insecticide to kill infectious parasites, why not try anti-psychotics? This would ensure that stress has not contributed to a delusion, in addition to a physical condition.

Instead, they're embroiled in Lymebuster's hostility toward doctors and apparent contempt for the mentally ill. Why can't they imagine that they could suffer a delusion? No-one can be sure they don't, because these things can begin and progress with subtlety and arise from reasonable concerns. If doctors advise that you have cause for concern about your mental health, you should treat that, as you would a physical disorder. I believe Lymebusters instills such contempt among its members for psychiatric care that board members considering suicide-- desperate people-- would probably hesitate to seek help.

Some members of the board do discuss talk therapy for their stress and depression, but the overwhelming message is that somatization never happens, not to people with Morgellons. The board community denies that self-inflicted lesions could be a major cause of any board member's skin problems.

Don't you want appropriate advice to be offered to all suffering people at Lymebusters? Haven't some of them experienced situations in which it would be reasonable to explore psychiatric treatment beyond talk therapy or anti-depressives or anti-anxiety drugs? I'm not talking about pointing fingers at individuals. A sticky thread in which it is acknowledged that sometimes it's necessary to treat the mind as well as the body would be a good start. You never see a positive thread about treatment for obsessions, compulsions, or delusions at Lymebusters. Why do you support a board that denies that side of the issue?

We don't want people to join Lymebusters and grow worse.

By the way, do stay. I will be civil, and I do not have any "knowledge" of your condition. I will not deny, but I won't assume there is a new disease from anecdotal evidence. My interest in this is that people are informed of the aspects that Lymebusters denies-- all the physical diseases which could account for Margellons symptoms, AND the psychiatric ones that could develop from the stress of physical illness.

 
At 1:59 PM, Blogger JeeezeLouise said...

>>You see, you do pollute your body in a manner that I would not.

<<

Ah, but how do we know that Diet Coke does not ward off Morgellons?

Generally accepted standards of evidence would suggest that there is likely no link, but then generally accepted standards of evidence also seem to suggest that "Morgellons" is actually DOP.

Or is that presumptuous?

 
At 2:13 PM, Blogger Smileykins said...

Jeezelouise, who said she was carded for ordering a drink? Same person who was injured when taking the trash out, by a broken martini glass. I'm sorry, but please. Your diet coke is rather benign.

 
At 2:16 PM, Blogger Smileykins said...

And the NICOTINE PATCHES Abhorah!!! Remember how sick you made yourself, and wouldn't listen to me???

 
At 2:23 PM, Blogger JeeezeLouise said...

Perhaps Aherah's time would be better spent keeping folks off antspray and sleeping pills, rather than presuming to tell me how I am polluting my body.

At least I am reasonably certain that Diet Coke doesn't cause fibers to emerge from a person's skin. I think I'll have another!

 
At 3:55 PM, Blogger Smileykins said...

Well Abhorah, among so many other things, accused me of calling what they have "a curse" (as have others, I've noticed), and accused me of wanting to "save them". Nuh-uh. (There are more of these references too)

Re: Holy Cow; this can't be it,
can it?????
« Reply #21 on Apr 30, 2006,7:17pm »

Hey Carrie, London and all,

You guys know far more about the workings of various afflictions than I do. While we always feel this disease has been a curse, I just don't feel I have been such a person deserving of this curse. That theory doesn't cut it for me. It isn't right to say every misfortune that a
person experiences is a curse. Sometimes it is about perspective. One of the things I hate about this disease the most is our ignorance of it. Right before the fibers blew up again last year, both my son and I had some sort of virus that acted like an eye infection. If we were infected with the bird flu, and if it is somehow related to Morgellons, then wouldn't that mean that we should have developed some sort of immunity to a more serious strain? (the kind that takes you out in a matter of days) It would be nice if there were some sort of upside to this thing. I don't know how, but I'd like to believe that there is something better hiding in this wretched experience.

Take Care,
Aherah

 
At 4:21 PM, Blogger Aherah said...

I believe I was responding to other's suggestions of this curse business. Can you provide the full link? I don't feel like reading through twenty pages of the site, as you seem to do.

The curse stuff was first ever mentioned by Bugs Alive...then later by Thunderations (similar personalities too, hummm). I believe Thunderations said something like "curses do exsist you know." It reminded me of when you and Bugs talked curses. I thought it was out-of-character for Bugs, so I remembered it. I don't believe in curses (unless I cast them, BOO).

You just can't leave it alone, can you?

I'm not saved. You are. You're so terrifically Christian. I'm not. I'm just a horrible, evil human being, or "asshole," because I have a strange illness you want to pretend doesn't exist. Yadda, yadda.

ah

 
At 4:34 PM, Blogger Aherah said...

"My interest in this is that people are informed of the aspects that Lymebusters denies-- all the physical diseases which could account for Margellons symptoms, AND the psychiatric ones that could develop from the stress of physical illness."

Why do you think we are not in agreement on this? Do you miss the repeated attempts on Lymebusters of people trying to understand this illness from established medical situations? I think it is quite possible that there are many real physical illnesses being pushed under the umbrella called "Morgellons," but that doesn't change the fact that no one can tell me why there are fibers coming out of my skin. Fibers that others can see and also find it unusual. If someone can explain, or, at the very least, acknowledge it, Lymebusters would be a whole different sort of board. When good people with medical conditions become ostrasized to the extent that the Morgies have, the world no longer looks very friendly. Fear takes over.

I'm not always in agreement with everything posted on Lymebusters, but hey, I'm not in agreement about a lot of things that go on in the world. How much pull do I have?

I have to go. I don't have time to play right now.

ah

 
At 6:09 PM, Blogger Smileykins said...

Can you stand by your words when they're shown back to you, like I "tried" getting through to you on your first day of attack on this blog?

Abhorah/Upnapishtim said...

"Mary--I don't own a microscope, sorry. I'll be sure to get some help; I'll just turn on my tv and tune into...what's the name of that holy roller you watch?"

Re: KTVU Update Story
« Reply #8 on May 24, 2006, 2:35pm »

Small steps Glenn. First, we have to straighten out the delusion thing. The best way to do that is to focus on what we know we know, that we are sick and fibers in our skin seem to be involved. Once we can establish that in the mainstream, then we can talk about what might be causing it. Also, keep in mind that we are not all in agreement about the worm thing. I have seen the things you call worms too. At one time, I thought it was s. mancini. I've never seen anything move. When looking under a microscope, I've not seen anything that I could positively identify as a worm. I do know that this thing looks wormish, but just because it looks that way doesn't prove that it is in fact a worm. This is not the time to posit theories about what it might be. Stick to what we know and agree on--that we have something that appears to be infectious.

Take Care,
Aherah

 
At 6:34 PM, Blogger Smileykins said...

Hey, Abhorah, I'm "whining" back at you. In your long list, I missed a couple the other night.
Here's the tail end of the one about that poor woman I used to work with, "....She was compelled to repeat the behavior, never learning from the previous events."

You said....
"This is a confession, isn't it."

No. I didn't go into any more of the woman's problems, but she was a mess. I was illustrating how peculiar of some morgies to pretend to understand the schizophrenic ones' theories.

The only thing I can think of being fearful of is:

1. a vicious dog
2. a loaded gun

Time for recess!!

 
At 6:34 PM, Blogger Aherah said...

I'm back.

I'd like to say thank you here-to-comment for addressing the real issues at hand and being respectful. Now...

No simple answers with such situations-- when some-one is ill, and desperate, they're not in the best position to treat themselves. Desperation would be dangerous, don't you agree?

I absolutely agree, but when no one will treat you with what you know is wrong what is one to do? The big roadblock here is that I know this thing is real. I KNOW THAT. I also know how frustrating and scary it is when you must deal with it alone. I've read some posters to this forum talk about how the Morgies are abusing their children. That does piss me off. I cherish my children. I know that they have this, but I don't let them know it. They have to believe that nothing is wrong. So why is it that, while I practice my denial is full view of the world, my three year old son says "I have bugs in my body" and then proceeds to change his shirt every five minutes because of the "bugs." I swear I would never let him believe that, and I didn't allow him to believe that when he said it. I DID NOT IN ANY WAY PLACE THAT IDEA IN MY SON'S HEAD!!! And yet, he said it because he feels it. How can a loving mother who has gone to the lengths that I have, giving-up all of my own professional goals to raise my children myself, deal with a mess like this? How can I help them? Ya know, these are the little people I love more than anything else in the world, but my hands are tied. I just don't know what to do. Thus, I understand desperation. I understand anger. I understand frustration. I'm living it.

If they try bleach and insecticide to kill infectious parasites, why not try anti-psychotics?

Shall we place my mother on them as well? My husband? My girlfriend? My three-year-old son? I don't recall ever condoning the use of straight bleach, and I'm not convinced Morgies are doing this. Nonetheless, if I know I have one type of condition, why should I allow any doctor to give me a drug for another type of condition? Why can't we just work on figuring out the initial problem, as some doctors are. It is also my understanding that the antipsychotics have not been successful for Morgies (Dr. Wymore states this in his letter.).

Maybe they can't accept the thought that they have one that is incurable.

I could live with that response, but it involves an acknowledgement that there is something there.

Why can't they imagine that they could suffer a delusion?

I have this expectation that if I were suffering a delusion, it wouldn't be happening as I calmly listen to my mother talk...and then she sees my delusion. I have this expectation that it wouldn't be as I casually dry myself off with a towel, and marvel and the two cotton-balls I was just able to rub from my hands. For me, delusions involve some sort of freak-out. I'm used to the fiber/fuzz. I don't "trip" on it; I just see it, plain and simple.

If doctors advise that you have cause for concern about your mental health, you should treat that, as you would a physical disorder.

I don't disagree with what you say, but I do disagree with the one doctor who gave me this "diagnosis." I spend about three minutes in the room. I told him I had fibers coming out of my skin. He glanced at them and said dop. Wow. Did I really need to go to a doctor for that one? I guess I expect a little more examination, at the very least. I suppose I don't respect lazy people who do not consider the consequences of their laziness. Nonetheless, my issues with doctors started when I was in the Army...some strange blood tests. Bugs/tall cotton remembers.

Some members of the board do discuss talk therapy for their stress and depression, but the overwhelming message is that somatization never happens, not to people with Morgellons.

I had been one to talk about tinkering with the idea of antidepressants. When you can't help your kids or yourself with a strange illness, you're bound to get depressed. I recall that Adapted/Smileykins and Jeff cautioned against it. I recall that others suggested I do what is best for me. I chose not to. I'm not depressed today, but we're not as sick with fibers and rashes either. It has also been a TREMENDOUS help that my new doctor doesn't say "dop"--she just says "I don't know what to do." I can live with that, although it's not my favorite response.

The board community denies that self-inflicted lesions could be a major cause of any board member's skin problems.

I don't have lesions. I don't believe the majority of people with Morgellons cause their own lesions. I believe there are people with disorders in which they scratch holes into their skin, but I don't believe that this is what happening in the majority of Morgellons patients. They have been mislabeled, again.

Why do you support a board that denies that side of the issue?

I don't believe that they do. When I said that I needed help, people of different opinions responded--that's all. I'm still the adult that must make the ultimate decision. I choose not to. I don't believe anyone should place all of the weight of their decisions on the opinions of a few on any message board. I think the majority of posters to Lymebusters understand this as well.

But the medical establishment says that the OSU doctors are wrong,

It's easy to dismiss what you refuse to look at, just as my doctor did. The medical establishment is firmly established in their long-held unestablished beliefs. They do what they have always done because calling someone dop "works." Yeah, they won't go to any more doctors after experiencing enough of that humiliation. It is the fallacy of Ancient Wisdom personified as Delusions of Parasitosis.

but I won't assume there is a new disease from anecdotal evidence.

I don't know that it is a new disease either. All I have ever claimed to know is that strange stuff is coming out of my flesh. I believe that I have other odd symptoms that are related, but I don't know that because I can't see it. Seeing is believing.

I'm almost inclined to let my health go and get really sick again. Then I can attempt to take some of those videos you suggest Margie. But what if I can't make it back? You may not know this, but I know that is a scary thought.

Thank you for what appears to be a bit of compassion.

 
At 6:45 PM, Blogger Aherah said...

"Mary--I don't own a microscope"

I used to own a 5 dollar little thing from radio shack. I bought it after my son said that there were bugs in his body. I wanted to be sure he wasn't right. It lasted about a month. I never saw bugs. My older son found it and made it his. He does look at bugs with it, along with a wide variety of other things that he finds in the backyard--he's curious and smart. It didn't take long for the thing to get lost in his care. If I don't own a microscope now, that doesn't mean I never did. Keep it up though. I enjoy reading some of my old comments.

You just can't find a more productive hobby Mary? How about reading a little of that good book you wave around.

ah

 
At 7:13 PM, Blogger Smileykins said...

I didn't have time to read that long post of yours. Well, I picked up a couple of things.

a. You told us about your mom being a victim of delusional parasitosis right in this blog topic. Whined a bit too, saying to yourself, a little later,

"Thanks for sharing your story Linda. I'm sorry for your mother's torment. You won't find much love and understanding from this bunch though."

ah

b. Your kids. Are you SURE ya wanna do this?

I'm disabled and got lots of time on my hands, and if you need the attention....

.....You got it. Hahahaha!!!

It's not nice to treat people so ugly, now, is it?

 
At 7:28 PM, Blogger Aherah said...

Mary,

I cannot chose the identity of "linda" because she took it long ago. How could I post as "linda" then? I'd have to be linda495083 or something like that.

If it pleases you, go ahead, "get into it." Still, I don't think that's what Margie wanted this blog to become.

ah

 
At 7:31 PM, Blogger Aherah said...

"It's not nice to treat people so ugly, now, is it?"

I never thought it was either, especially coming from a Christian! Thus sprouts my desire to correct your frequent mischaracterizations. So tell me, is this how Jesus would act?

ah

 
At 7:33 PM, Blogger Smileykins said...

Oh, here's a fun one.....

Re: Idea
« Reply #3 on Jun 5, 2006, 5:48pm »

Transhumanist, am I delusional or did I not read your token use of the word "we" in a previous post? You have to decide if your going to pretend to be a sufferer, or if your going to pretend
to be a medical figure who gives a s__t. Which is it? Don't confuse me with your pretenses now. I need to know how to pretend to act with you.

Aherah

I got a lot of oldies but goodies, too. Weird, ain't it? Even between the "two of us", after you "declared" that you left that message board and didn't return until after I was gone.

This one was too sad, but here's a segment....

« Reply #5 on Jul 11, 2005, 1:34am »

Thanks for the words of confidence Spec,

If you look on the bottom of the same page I referred to, you will see my "banana" on the bottom right of the page. As far as providing a lending hand, I'd need others to be strong so that I will be inclined to do the same. Reading adapted's posts about what she had gone through and survived encouraged me. All is not lost yet for my little ones. My husband though...he's too tired all of the time; he's becoming zombified....

Listen, you have changed. So have others. Not for the better, but hey......

 
At 7:33 PM, Blogger Aherah said...

"You told us about your mom being a victim of delusional parasitosis"

...by virtue of having seen the fibers on me. That's how it works; if you see fibers, you're delusional, simple as that.

ah

 
At 7:39 PM, Blogger Aherah said...

"Reading adapted's posts about what she had gone through and survived encouraged me."

And now you know why I think you are a fraud. You tell some really elaborate, really good tall tales. I've learned to take stories of bugs popping out of lesions with a grain of salt, thanks to you. Learning of your change of heart at least allowed me to realize that I probably don't have to worry about birthing bugs. Thank God.

ah

 
At 7:47 PM, Blogger Smileykins said...

Margellons said....
.
Excerpt from the other night:

"I don't really have a big problem with it - as few people will read this far anyway. But it's still a pointless argument....."

Oh, Abhorah I don't know what to do, I don't know what to do. You are just so terrible for confusing me. What is it that you mean by telling me this!!??.....

"Keep it up though. I enjoy reading some of my old comments."

You wanted any lies that you've told to be put up here, RIGHT? You DID say that.

I have a whole long ways yet to go....saved them all in my spare time, after you requested that.

 
At 7:57 PM, Blogger JeeezeLouise said...

Oooh, it is so not nice to post someone's full, real name on the net.

 
At 7:58 PM, Blogger Smileykins said...

I didn't have time to read any of your boring, self-serving comments, but the word "bugs" caught my eye. Did you see the new topic here tonight that Margellons added? Oh, it's excellent.

Anyway, here's a good one from someone you know, from last month, on Lymebusters.....

____, I understand your confusion and you are asking very relevant questions that often have complicated answers but mostly, the answers have not been found yet. I think that when people
mention the bugs, they aren't talking in a pathogen-type of bug.....they are saying if we
consistently speak of insects as the cause of this, we might not get the attention required
that will offer help in the way of research and monetary assistance. We know there are very few true cases of DOP but outsiders reading here don't know that. They just equate DOP with bugs,
plain and simple. Many of us have had real insect infestations in our bodies. I will admit that I am one of these people and I may be a little slow thesedays but I'm surely not delusional. I just don't think that Morgellons equals bugs (insects) where the cause of the disease is concerned. Something in
us is attracting them to us but it could be a fungal infection, possibly not even directly
related to Morgellons as much as it is our messed up immune systems. Maybe Morgellons is
draining the immune systems, maybe it's not....but the "bugs" are still the effect, not the
cause. So if we leave that part out for now and concentrate on the actual pathogen, we will
eventually discover why the bugs have even become a factor here. It's just best that we not focus too much on them right now, as we all know how much worse it makes us look.....I think every person here has experienced that humiliation from just the
disbelief of the fibers. Think how much worse we would appear if we mentioned bugs along with the fibers in these media spots. Thirty years ago if I saw a person on TV talking about bugs coming out of their skin, I would have compassion for that person but I doubt I would have
believed him. It's just another of our issues that needs to come out in its own time and I'm sure it will.....we just need to concentrate more on the actual pathogen right now. As for the Septra, it's not been recognized as a conventional treatment for Lyme (though it is used). But then we're talking acute Lyme and I doubt any of us has borrelia in the acute stages
anyway. The Septra did help me with my Lyme symptoms as well as the Morgs symptoms.....over and over we have seen various types of products with the same properties that are helping with symptoms. I don't know why but I'm sure the research will investigate this at some point. I hope maybe this will answer some of your questions and you will see that the others weren't throwing stones so much as trying to say something without really saying it (which is probably
a good thing). I hated to use the "b" word so much here myself but maybe after reading it, everyone will understand what we are trying to say and we won't have to mention the word so much anymore. Whether it's true or not isn't the issue, it's the fact that we don't want to get
into that part while we are getting so much outside attention. We need all the help we can get.

Hugs,

Weird bunch. Can't tell y'all nuttin'.

 
At 8:06 PM, Blogger Smileykins said...

abac68...ya make your bed, you lie in it.

 
At 9:24 PM, Blogger Smileykins said...

Dang, Abhorah. You tell lies faster than I can keep up with them.....

"When you can't help your kids or yourself with a strange illness, you're bound to get depressed. I recall that Adapted/Smileykins and Jeff cautioned against it. I recall that others suggested I do
what is best for me. I chose not to. I'm not depressed today..."

Pills

P.S. As was often the case, someone misunderstood, and "assigned" something to me. The next post said, "Linda, I like adapted have been misdiagnosed for yrs. and on these meds"

I wasn't "misdiagnosed". A shrink tried, unsucessfully, to treat me for depression after a disabling injury."

 
At 10:05 PM, Blogger Smileykins said...

You are hard keeping up with, and I've lost some order, due to your whining, long, posts. I have to move onto other things, but before I close......

Mary,

I cannot chose the identity of "linda" because she took it long ago. How could I post as "linda" then? I'd have to be linda495083 or something like that."

OMG, and you really think that ploy is not see-through? There was/is no other Linda on the morgie board. You really do think that you go behind a secret curtain at Lymebusters, don't you? More later, since you wanted your lies put up before you, and since you said that you like seeing your own posts.

"Have a Nice Day"

"Respectfully Yours",
Smileykins

 
At 4:43 PM, Blogger Smileykins said...

Linda, you don't realize all you say. Please, please, try. (I'm not raising my voice, this is in a soft tone, raising it only where illustrated.)

You said......

"I've read some posters to this forum talk about how the Morgies are abusing their children. That does piss me off. I cherish my children. I know that they have this, but I don't let them know it. They have to believe that nothing is wrong. So why is it that, while I practice my denial is full view of the world, my three year old son says 'I have bugs in my body' and then proceeds to change his shirt every five minutes because of the 'bugs'."

The word I use is, "neglect", not abuse, and you are citing another incident, right there. Is he also the one allowed to eat so much cereal all the time? Developmental problems? Problems with bowel movements? You've asked for assistance for yourself and your kids for how long , now, and continued evading it?

Be a mom to him.

HE'S THREE. Please put the denial on the shelf. At least the damned "denial in full view of the world", and try like hell to deal with reality, instead of letting him do that over and over. Do you really expect him to launch into explicit verbal detail with you like you want out of everyone else?

HE'S THREE. He's itching like hell, you!! Get some mental health care so you'll stop neglecting your babies. If you are so far gone to not "GET THAT", of course you aren't able to make any other connections as to what the
problem is. You need your mind healed because you can't deal with reality. Don't be afraid he has bugs. He has something that's treatable. Linda, "SMACK!" Wake the hell up.

Get Nizoral Shampoo for your itchy scalp, follow the directions, and wash your hair every time you perspire. You think your scalp bothers you?
Think about that baby complaining and being ignored.

Quietly seek help through your PCP. Nobody has to know (because I know that is a major concern of yours), other than, perhaps, your husband.

Don't you want yourself happy again (like your little girl can make you feel), all of the time? She'll grow up thinking it's her job to make you happy if you don't do something about this. Don't you know that from your own mother?

Your little boy doesn't say, "I don't feel good", all the time. He says, "I CAN'T feel good." Mother? Why are you not listening and understanding your very own child, and sitting at a computer, telling it to the world?

Finish the sentence:

"Defending my morgellons disease means more to me than _______"

Because that is why so many morgies blame all of their valuable losses on "morgellons disease". Don't let it do that.

Now, Linda, can't you still be a part of the morgellons effort, but while they're working on it, can you not try to take care of Linda and kids?

 
At 5:09 PM, Blogger Smileykins said...

"Knock-knock."

"Who's there?"

"It's your brain, Linda, use me."

"We have more to lose by doing nothing than we have to lose by doing something."

(your words, posted in the Thrip topic)......

 
At 7:31 PM, Blogger here_to_comment said...

Aherah said:

"I cherish my children. I know that they have this, but I don't let them know it. They have to believe that nothing is wrong. So why is it that, while I practice my denial is full view of the world, my three year old son says "I have bugs in my body" and then proceeds to change his shirt every five minutes because of the "bugs." I swear I would never let him believe that, and I didn't allow him to believe that when he said it. I DID NOT IN ANY WAY PLACE THAT IDEA IN MY SON'S HEAD!!! And yet, he said it because he feels it."

That is sad. There are other possibilities though. As Smiley suggests, your son could easily be describing the sensations of a known, readily treatable skin condition. Alternately, your son is in tune with your hidden emotions. He does not intend to manipulate you, but children like being the center of attention. Perhaps he doesn't understands how terrible it feels for you to be worried about his health. He says these things repeatedly because he got a reaction the first time. Maybe he knows that you're concerned with your own skin health, and he's copying that behavior in a child-like way. Aherah, there are so many possible explanations. Regardless, your decision to keep your son confident in his own health is a good one.

So far as anti-psychotics go, if they can eliminate a possible component of a person's health problems, don't be quick to dismiss them. Your family members know you're a rational person, so they doubt that your interpretation of your fibers could be wrong. They listen to you. You may be right about your fibers, Aherah, but does that mean everyone is right about theirs?

People with psychiatric conditions can be generally rational but have some irrational beliefs. The beliefs could coincide with a skin disease or follow a scabies/lice infestation. They could exaggerate symptoms in the person's mind. There's no reason for people on Lymebusters to resort to insecticide or regularly re-opening their wounds BEFORE treating themselves for possible psychiatric conditions. The board moderators and members should not stand by and watch this happen.

So far as Lymebusters is concerned, I am convinced that people there are making lesions out of minor skin eruptions. They speak of removing scabs and the material beneath to ensure that wounds are "clean." They state that they often must repeat the process. This includes more than a few board members, and it's an unhealthy idea. A stressed, depressed, or frightened person can't be expected to resist such ideas as easily as they would when they're at their best. The people who come to Lymebusters, we agree, are desperate people. Lymebusters is not a good place for them.

 
At 8:02 PM, Blogger Aherah said...

For Smiley,

The word I use is, "neglect", not abuse, and you are citing another incident, right there. Is he also the one allowed to eat so much cereal all the time? Developmental problems? Problems with bowel movements? Yeah, in 2004, he stopped eating dinner altogether. He started having black diarrhea. He refused to eat anything but cheerios. I took him to the pediatrician several times with no relief. Then he started getting rashes. He started having huge amounts of fuzz coming from his back. This was my first indication that my issue was his. At first I panicked, but eventually helped him. Like so many other kids whose parents have fibers issues, he displays symptoms of ADD with a speech delay. Don’t take my word for it; ask his teacher.

You've asked for assistance for yourself and your kids for how long , now, and continued evading it? How do you figure I evaded it? When I said that I practiced my denial in full view of the world, I was referring to pretending that I don’t see anything wrong (like fibers) around them. They wouldn’t know what Morgellons was if you asked them.

Don't be afraid he has bugs. He has something that's treatable. Linda, "SMACK!" Wake the hell up. Which bugs Mary? Were they the same bugs you had/have? I wasn’t able to see them on him or me. Funny, he doesn’t have bugs today. Should I douse him in pesticides? No chance. Anyways, I thought you were against that sort of thing.

Get Nizoral Shampoo for your itchy scalp, follow the directions, and wash your hair every time you perspire. Done that along with a long list of other shampoos--no good. Why would you think that I wouldn’t attempt to fix it myself?

You think your scalp bothers you? Think about that baby complaining and being ignored. By whom? I think the fact that I persist on yelling that these kids need help demonstrates that I don’t ignore my children’s complaints. That’s also why they are better today.

Don't you know that from your own mother? Uhhh…no. What, you diagnosing my whole family now? What puts you in a position to diagnose anybody? Just because you’ve been diagnosed with multiple issues doesn’t mean you are qualified to diagnose others. “SMACK!!!” Do you get it yet? “SMACK, SMACK!!!” Now? I fear you enjoy this sort of thing. Again, you seem to confuse your own issues with my life. WE ARE NOT THE SAME! “SMACK!!!”

Why are you not listening and understanding your very own child, and sitting at a computer, telling it to the world? He feels good now. I must have done something right. Why do you think you, in your wretched position in life, would know better how to parent than the dumbest crack-mom? You are soooo delusional.

There are two sides to every story; Margellons only presents one. The audience deserves to hear the other. But this is a temporary arrangement. I have no desire to play long-term.

Defending my morgellons disease means more to me than _______
…saving Mary’s soul.

Because that is why so many morgies blame all of their valuable losses on "morgellons disease". Don't let it do that.

1. As if you care?
2. I don’t intend on playing the role of victim, never did. I’m moving on.

Now, Linda, can't you still be a part of the morgellons effort, but while they're working on it, can you not try to take care of Linda and kids? The kids are doing better than Linda. Linda has been having other strange issues. I can’t blame it on Morgellons because “Morgellons is not a real disease.” Nevertheless, when I speak to my doctor about these symptoms her response is “that doesn’t sound like anything I have ever read of in any of my medical books.” Great! Nothing happens.

Mary, can we just agree that we’re not going to be buddies and leave it at that? Even if I did welcome you to the board, which I highly doubt, I didn’t know you’d turn into the demon I come to know here. Good luck on that saving your soul business.

 
At 8:16 PM, Blogger Aherah said...

Hello Concerned. It's nice to talk to you again.

He says these things repeatedly because he got a reaction the first time. That's strange, I don't recall you being in my home when he said this. You are completely off-base and as presumptuous as the rest of them. Keep in mind, you're not helping me (if that is your intent) by advising me of situations about which you are entirely clueless. You won't get anywhere with that approach.

You may be right about your fibers, Aherah, but does that mean everyone is right about theirs? I really don't know. It would be a strange delusion to set one's mind on. You'd think they choose something other than dust to be delusional about. I won't tell people that they are crazy when I really don't know. I don't pretend to be privy to what is going on in someone else's life.

Lymebusters is not a good place for them. Everything you say presupposes that this is entirely a psychiatric event. Now rethink the whole thing as if this were a real disease that infected one's entire body. Read the descriptions of peoples torment as if it were true. Only then might you grasp the gravity of the situation.

There is one point Simles is correct about; I need to leave this bunch alone and get back to the people who really matter to me.

 
At 9:06 PM, Blogger Smileykins said...

Linda, has anyone ever mentioned that you're sociopathic?

 
At 9:10 PM, Blogger Showing Up said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
At 9:14 PM, Blogger Smileykins said...

You hellcat,. "save my soul"???

Read this....

Eight years go by. Your two-year old son has some sort of strange rash on his chest. The doctor says it is contact dermatitis. It doesn't go away. Then the doctor says it is ringworm, only now this "ringworm" is covering the entire torso of your child who has begun to behave in a spastic manner. When playing shirtless in the backyard you notice these red/blueish raised patches of skin that sparkle in the sun. Weird, you think, but you make no connection to your own skin disorder. Then, at the same age as your first son, your second son, who has some sort of language delay, stops eating dinner, and most foods. He says, "I can't feel good" often. You take him to his doctor who checks for parasites in his stool. Nothing is found; case closed for the doctor. Your son continues to have black diarrhea, a pallor face, and lethargy. Believing that he might have some sort of food allergy, you give him enzymes made for kids. That night he has an allergic reaction, breaking out in hives all over his little body. Two days later, he has a rash on his back. He wakes you up at three in the morning to scratch his back. You apply oil on his skin that you don't further damage it when you notice that he has fibers coming out of his skin too. Later he keeps changing his shirts because, according to him, there are bugs in his shirt. You assure him that is not the case. Then he tells you that there are bugs in his body. You share this with his doctor who decides that you are the one with the issues. "Assertive" is viewed as "crazy." In the meantime, both you and your eleven month old baby daughter have also broken out with fibery rashes. The baby attempts to realize her itchiness by rubbing her back on the carpet like a flea infested dog. You ask yourself over and over again, "how can this be happening?" You feel so desperate, yet you've grown wary of doctors who seem to be twisting what you say to justify a diagnosis of delusional. You stop going to them because, although you are incredibly concerned about the health of your children, you are even more concerned that the doctors may build a case to have your children put into protective custody. You research the internet and so easily discover that Elliot's disease, National United Skin Parasites Association, the Fiber Disease, and Morgellons are all one and the same. Ironically, all of the people with the exact same symptoms that you have, have been receiving the same faulty diagnosis, getting the same run-around, and have been treated with the same disrespect by their doctors. You have found a community of people who are the only ones who have ever attempted to help. Without this "cult," more people would be dead if even by suicide.

You crazy bitch, picking a bone of contention with me, because you're so stupid that you tuned out completely that I never had morgellons disease, and NEVER real bugs.

 
At 9:38 PM, Blogger Smileykins said...

From "Idea" thread at Lymebusters (but there are plenty):

"I also have never exhibited signs indicative of mental illness, and yet that is among the "diagnosis" Margellons labels all of us with. It's just name-calling in an attempt to marginalize (crazy people rarely have much of a voice)."

*People who think they have "morgellons disease" are easy to form opinions on, but you falsely accuse Margellons actions.

*Okay, then. Where has "your voice" BEEN concerning your healthcare, AND for the love of God, your OFFSPRING?

more, from there:

"So, If we don't have mental illnesses, then perhaps our stories of fibers, etc. coming from our skin are valid. We won't know until somebody investigates. Hey, but whadda I know, after all, I'm just a little ol' house wife."

*No, you're a mother of 3 small children and all of you in "dire need" of a healthcare advocate, if your family can't assist you. I'll speculate, that being brow-beaten into submission, it's no small wonder.

and.....

"Had others not been able to see what I saw, I might have believed myself delusional. They all see it as I see it. They also know that they aren't seeing things lest the whole world be delusional. Again, everyone who knows about my family's situation knows that it is real. Having always been a person of sound judgment and strong character, nobody questions me."

*THAT IS A POINT-I-MADE, ABOUT YOUR "ARGUMENTATIVE NATURE"...your family knows to "go along with you", by this time in your lives. You husband sounds like he's shut-down, and checked-out, with your once having described him like a zombie. You used to tell of your marital problems, then you ceased.

plus......

"Then people like you write blogs about people like me. The funny thing is, I know lots of people who don't have Morgellons, but have the same experience with/negative opinion of their doctors."

*Rather than wasting remonstrative time here, could creating a blog devoted to the topic of "people who don't have Morgellons, but have the same experience with/negative opinion of their doctors", help you work through your problems? You could expand on your "AMA Cult" thread from Lymebusters.

Oh, of course not. There's nothing wrong with you, it's everyone else.

more......

"A year and a half ago (when this thing was bad), I felt it on my scalp--not so easy to ignore, I'll tell ya. Yes, it felt like bugs, but I understand that a sensation can be different from the reality of a situation. I didn't have lice, so what was it? Who knows. My scalp has been terribly itchy ever since."

*For whatever the reason, self-neglect, is not a doctor's fault. I don't know the extent of neglect of your children, other than what you've written about, but I assure you that the one who you allowed his torso, front and back, to go untreated has suffered far worse than you. Or am I reading it was BOTH boys?! And you wonder why he'd/they'd spazzed at times? The baby, too, that you put down on the carpet (of all places!), and told of her trying to help her itching, like a dog squirming on her back. You continue allowing your son, with developmental/behavioral problems, to eat sweetened cereal as his mainstay diet?

Then you say for "ME" to just ask his teacher if he isn't ADD??? "ME ASK???" WTF?

You think undereducated doctors are to blame for this.

You think something called "morgellons disease" is to blame for all this.

You think your family going along with you means you aren't delusional.

And you said...

"Do you know why headlice.org led the way in attempting research? Because too many people with the sensations I felt had been contacting them. It feels like bugs, no matter which ones you want to talk about."

*Well, I'm sure glad you cleared that point up, because I'd found that odd.

 
At 9:55 PM, Blogger Smileykins said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
At 10:17 PM, Blogger Smileykins said...

"I don't pretend to be privy to what is going on in someone else's life." OH, REALLY YOU DON'T, ABHORAH?

These are all your words I have been showing you, and I tried steering you out of this direction, as best as I could, on the first day you came here with "your agenda". You kept on, relentlessly. You'd wanted to see where you've lied. Shit happens, when you ask for it, now doesn't it?

Can you see all the lies, yet? I'm stopping, for now.

But hey, do you "Like Music?"

Well, since you didn't get your blue-fuzz legs from jeans, ever hear the song.....

"Devil With The Blue Dress On?"

Hahahahaha!!!!

 
At 10:48 PM, Blogger Aherah said...

Mary Iscariot,

I don't know the extent of neglect of your children, other than what you've written about, but I assure you that the one who you allowed his torso, front and back, to go untreated has suffered far worse than you.
I allowed it? Were you there when I was taking him back and forth to the doctor AFTER REPEATED MISDIAGNOSIS? If it wasn’t for the persistence of this very good mother, he’d have suffered much longer. I demanded that he be given something stronger than a little cream to cure it. I even made a two hour trip to a specialized hospital to be sure that he was healed. BUT WHAT DO YOU KNOW, YOU WEREN’T THERE! How is it that you think an argumentative mother who adores her kids would allow them to suffer due to the errors of doctors?

Or am I reading it was BOTH boys?! No, you’re making things up, again.

The baby, too, that you put down on the carpet (of all places!), and told of her trying to help her itching, like a dog squirming on her back. Your lies are so grand, you might as well say I lit her on fire and told her to run around the house. She was walking at one. She decided to lie on the floor and rub her itchy back on the carpet. I didn’t tell her to do anything. Does God condone all of these lies or are you going to have to get “saved” again? I think you’d better pick out a nice dress for next Sunday. You’ll be needing it.

"You crazy bitch"
You are one classy broad.

 
At 11:16 PM, Blogger Tall Cotton said...

Pinocchio!

Pinocchioooo!

Pinocchiooooooooooooooo!

Now you know that Smileykins didn't imply that your child has bugs. It was clear that she was saying, don't let your fear of such a diagnosis keep you from taking your child to a doctor. You also know that Smileykins didn't suggest or imply that you used pesticides on your child. If your comprehension isn't any better than that, you sure don't have any business being a school teacher. You said that your doctor said that you are the one with "issues". Why don't you come down off that self-made pedistal, Pinocchiooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! and treat your mental disorders? Everyone can see them but you. Don't worry about Smileykin's Salvation. It's apparent that you don't know what the word means. If you did you would know that it isn't based on how one acts, but in who one knows. Do you know Him, Pinocchiooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo?. No! No! No!

Tall Cotton

 
At 11:16 PM, Blogger Aherah said...

From the lymebuster board:

Good Lord, are those two still around and then allowed to come back and post on this board! Thunderations! They are nutz and guess what, like I've said before, my hubby worked in drug clinics all his life and that IS where you see real live DOP patients. The methheads LOVE to pick the crap out of themselves. You wanna give em a big hug Aherah? They live right up the road from me. I've been seriously threatened and harassed by Miss Smilikins or whatever the socalled adapted fool is calling herself now. It's taken a lot of self control to not go give her a big hug myself! Quite a pleasant country drive. I've still got all the dirt on these two saved because I thought I was going to have to get a restraining order for the whacko. Heck, I'll help ya hug her. Nice big juicy one. I wonder what happens when a DOP patient gets Morgellons? Do they imagine they have it? I'm kinda tired but it seems like a paradox to me.

 
At 11:17 PM, Blogger Aherah said...

"being a school teacher"

I'm not.

 
At 11:19 PM, Blogger Smileykins said...

"What puts you in a position to diagnose anybody?"

*Your joined at the hip buddy Godshammer thought I was "diagnosing" too!! Only a qualified doctor gives diagnoses. Go get some.

"Just because you’ve been diagnosed with multiple issues doesn’t mean you are qualified to diagnose others."

*What a dumbass statement. But you finally read Tall Cotton's and my blog? So, you see how physical "issues" can cause delusional parasitosis, now. TC and I weren't mental to start with. I told you I had hallucinated, numbskull.

When ya first came here on your mission....

At 11:55 AM, upnapishtim said...

Hello Margellons and dubious naysayers. Margellons, I have to admit that you are organized in your attempts to prove that Morgellons is a ficticious disease. I can see that promoting your view is very important to you. Why?

The word is, "FACTITIOUS". Look it up.

 
At 11:20 PM, Blogger Tall Cotton said...

Correct the word, "used" to "use".

 
At 11:29 PM, Blogger Smileykins said...

I haven't time to waste reading your lies, Abhorah, but I glanced and saw some sort of religious reference, which reminded me that you'd asked this previously......

"So tell me, is this how Jesus would act?"

I was nice when I knew you before. I was nice, before you brought an evil scheme into my path. There is only one Jesus, and I'm not Him. He's my Savior, and He forgives me for my trespasses, dipshit.

 
At 11:29 PM, Blogger Tall Cotton said...

Pinocchio,

You quoted Ridgewalker, and she is almost as big a liar as you are. Neither Smileykins, nor I, have ever lived just up the road from Ridgewalker. Nor has Smileykins ever gone to her church, as she has stated. And she certainly hasn't ever worked on any projects with her. Smileykins has never threatened the crazy woman either. All lies!! Try again, dumbass!

Tall Cotton

 
At 11:33 PM, Blogger Smileykins said...

So, pound a block of salt up your ass, sistuh.

 
At 11:45 PM, Blogger Smileykins said...

Doofus, you went back to the "Like Music?" thread you poked your childish fun of Margellons blog on, and told that freaky woman to come see what I had said here.

You got DELETED too, for saying it, stirring shit up everywhere you happen to be, all of the time. She's gotten her ass in a royal sling. Keep on, until you wreck yourself.
You're somebody's mother, though. I wish you realized what you're doing.

Ridgewalker jumped somebody named Monk, too, and they were like me, not knowing what the heck she's gotten into her head.

 
At 11:59 PM, Blogger Aherah said...

Apparently you were delusional about more than just bugs:

Toreup, thank you for sharing your pics. The one of the clumped stuff from your face...during one of my phases, when I was so gravely ill back in 2002, when I went to the ER (for the second time), tons of that material was spewing forth from me, but I didn't say a word to anyone about it. It was decayed plant material of all sorts and looked like stuff from a forest bed. The pristine white sheets at the hospital became covered with it, as I watched, not saying anything. I was too sick to speak, for one thing, and sort of knew that I shouldn't. It probably looked as though I had tracked in a bunch of stuff onto the clean sheets from my shoes, if anyone noticed it (which I don't know how they could have missed it). I was a mess, but it was ALL spewing directly out of me. I'd had lesser amounts of plant material that was still green with chlorophyll, before this phase hit me. I wish I could help you, but all I can do is to tell you I'd had it too, in excess amounts. Hang tight, and God bless you.

http://lymebusters.proboards39.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1119839279

 
At 12:05 AM, Blogger Aherah said...

Bugs (tall cotton) on the topic of Christianity:

Jeff,

I agree with you about our founding fathers and the Christian principles upon which this nation was founded. I also agree that a lot of people voted for Bush because they thought he was a Christian. I don't want to say anyone isn't that professes Christianity, but people who know what George Bush has done, realize that he isn't being a good example of one. The World Trade Center was deliberately destroyed by our Federal Government and it certainly appears that he knew it was going to happen ahead of time. This was done so that we would have public support when we invaded Afganistan and Iraq. The Afgans and the Iraqis were murdered by our Government. Bush also has a personal interest in the Trans Afganistan Pipeline which Bridas corporation and the Taliban stood in the way of. I believe Bush is a mass murderer.

Bugs Alive


I thought he only had to "know" him. Maybe Bush "knows" him. It doesn't matter how he acts.

 
At 12:10 AM, Blogger Aherah said...

Adapted/smileykins:

"Liberalism is on its way out"? No, "FREEDOM" is on it's way out.

There's an overthrow taking place in our nation of Bible-Banging-zealots being fueled by Cowboy George's own personal evil agenda that's cloaked under guise of Christianity.

He made a lot of headway with it during his first term, and with the expansion of his already-existing faith-based programs, during this term, the road is being well paved. Among the lists of unconscionable acts Cowboy has been enabled to do, thus far, with plenty more on the way, wake the heck up people. For the love of God, start thinking for yourselves and for your future generations...not for him.

From abortion rights to same-sex marriage to government-funded religion, this Land Of The Free is being turned into a country that dictates what moral choices its citizens are allowed to make.

I don't think that our efforts to protect religious liberty and defend the separation of church and state stand too much of a chance up against this rapidly growing regime. Cowboy's got an awful lot of puppets working for him.

I will say, UNASHAMEDLY, that these Bible-Bangers are far removed from anything bearing any resemblance to the definition of a Christian. Jesus Christ taught love, tolerance, and acceptance. He commanded us to love one another. These "so-called" Christians rule with an iron fist. CHRIST IS ABSENT from their-own-form of "CHRIST-ianity".

Our Heavenly Father, with Jesus at His right hand, is the only one who can judge any of us. Anyone encountering a person professing to be a Christian, keep in mind what The Bible says in Matthew 7:20 "Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them". Also, Matthew 22:19 "You shall love your neighbor as yourself".

Love, which emcompasses tolerance and acceptance, does not include judgement...it does not include dictatorship.


"...and all the king's horses and all the king's men couldn't put Humpty together again."

Our nation is crumbling underneath him as he trudges onward with his plan(s).

So many people

....so unaware. :'(
« Last Edit: Jul 2, 2005, 7:00am by adapted »


Wow that was deep, too bad it's a crock. FRAUD!

 
At 12:14 AM, Blogger Aherah said...

Another area you know much about Smiles:

QUOTE

"The size of the lie is a definite factor in causing it to be believed, for the vast masses of a nation are in the depths of their hearts more easily deceived than they are consciously and intentionally bad. The primitive simplicity of their minds renders them a more easy prey to a big lie than a small one, for they themselves often tell little lies, but would be ashamed to tell big lies."

-- Geublers, Minister for Adolf Hitler

« Last Edit: Jul 10, 2005, 9:19am by adapted »

 
At 12:19 AM, Blogger Aherah said...

Health Crisis Cover-ups
« Thread Started on May 29, 2005, 8:03am »
National health crisis rears its ugly head, despite cover-ups:

http://mold-help.org...586//

"It's very insulting to the American public that beaurocratic pigs seem to care about their own health, but not the public. I am outraged that the government believes we are such a gullable public."

(Oh, now, surely not)

Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
bugsalive2
Guest

Re: Health Crisis Cover-ups
« Reply #1 on May 29, 2005, 3:36pm »
Hello,

Thanks for the article. It's amazing how the government always has double standards when the health of the public is concerned. This government is evil.

Bugs Alive



Yes the Morgies were paranoid, and you were fueling it!

 
At 12:25 AM, Blogger Aherah said...

Foghorn: "HONK-HONK"! Yes Ziggy, if you thought my smart-assed comment to Jeff, because I'm mad at him, was saying that posting links to other message boards isn't allowed here, you are indeed suffering the ill effects of brain-fog. I don't run this forum. I had my prissy-pants on. I am venting, for a change, after not having been around here too much lately. I gave the man a second chance, and as angry as I am over not receiving an apology, I am showing meself a bit. Am I acting beneath myself? I certainly am. Hopefully, I will overcome this real soon. I'm fairly safe, so just overlook me...I shall do no hitting below the belt. (restraint, restraint) I'm fine now, I just prayed and I'm back in check. Jeff is forgiven.

Yes, thank you for asking, Bugs and I are back in Montreal now, hanging out at the hot air balloon festival. It's been in progress over the past few days, and my neighbor is flying us back to my home in West Virginia. I'll have to get Bugs to put one of the pictures we took of Niagara Falls up here, in place of The Eiffel Tower photo.

Oh, those poor men will probably have to end up throwing me overboard before we get back home. Bugs has his hands full with me, because I'll admit, all this travelling is making me a little testy. He is so good natured, in calming me down all the time, rather than reacting to me.



I bet he has his hands full now.

 
At 12:33 AM, Blogger Aherah said...

Bugs said:

Hello Everybody,

I've seen many things with with my condition that are very hard to believe. I wouldn't expect anyone to believe them without experiencing them for themselves. Looking back on my experience I believe that some of these incidents involved hallucinations or visions, yet I photographed some of the things that seem so utterly impossible. I am convinced that some of my experiences involved the actual manipulation of physical materials by spirit entities. I repeat. I am convinced that some of my experiences involved the actual manipulation of physical materials by spirit entities. I'm convinced, also, that some, or possibly all, of these spirits were evil. With some observations being nothing more than illusions, some being real, but with the materials being externally manipulated, some being a result of natural phenomena, and some being a combination of all three, identifying real pathogens has been rather difficult. Were there any real pathogens? Yes, there were pathogens, but I believe that some of these organisms were overgrowths of my natural flora, which, as a result became pathogenic, and that some of these organisms left their internal locations and colonized on the surface of my skin.

In my case, I had taken methamphetamines for about 3 1/2 years, and I used them quite heavily for the last two years of that time period. My condition began with the appearance of a weep hole on my jaw line, but my general health was deteriorating. Later, a persistent sinus infection developed, and my tearducts became infected. Lesions covered the lower half of my face. This first seemed to be a relatively normal bacterial infection except for the strange behavior of the materials that drained from the places that were infected. I also found a hugh glob of gelatin-like material stuck on the back of my leg. Beneath the material I found a hole. I also had long hair-like fibers shooting from the pores on my face. I found many hair-like fibers in my environment that appeared to be alive. I had to fight them to get them sealed into pill bottles. I recall one of the fibers striking me as if it were a rattlesnake. Sure, this could have been an hallucination, but there were other performances that were equally impossible, and some of them were real enough to photographed.

It's seems possible that this was an infection caused by Staphylococcus aureus, or a combination of common pathogens, but if this was the case, it seems likely that the pathogens and/or some of the materials were being externally and intelligently controlled. I would squeeze the gelatin-like goo from my face. When I flicked it from my fingertips it hit with a splat, then instantly shape-shifted into highly detailed and recognizable shapes. These were intricately detailed shapes of animals. I also chased the material across my floor as it hopped like a rabbit.
On two separate occasions, as I chased the hopping gelatin-like material, it stopped, appeared to start spinning like a top, wobbled slightly from left to right, and morphed into a solid rock. I don't believe that any organism can do this, and I don't believe that it can be accomplished through bio-engineering. I've watched the material sail through the air and strike an object with a loud explosion. Ive watched it "creep" underneath my fingernails. It sparkles over a flame.

It seems like I studied thousands of organisms in every catagory of living things. I also studied various chemicals. Of course, this study included biofilms and other symbiotic relationships, and it included cell-wall-deficient bacteria. I studied the pseudoplasmodium because of its shape-shifting abilities, and I found a bacteria that can hop. But in my extensive research I couldn't find data on any microorganisms that are known to behave in such a strange manner. None could instantly shape-shift into detailed and recognizable higher organisms. Please listen to what I'm saying. I watched as a shapeless blob of protoplasm instantly shape-shifted into a pig with a rooster standing on its back. Others took the shapes of other barnyard animals, and wild animals such as wolves. The material could also generate a tremendous amount of heat, and it could turn it on almost instantly. It seemed to have the ability to penetrate anything it "decided" to penetrate, including my own skin. It seemed determined to reenter my body, and on many occasions that's exactly what it did.

After several months it seemed as if I was also developing a fungal infection on my face, and I pulled several large worms out of my thighs. Some very strange things were also happening in my environment. A small glob of the gelatin-like goo exploded on the door of my dishwasher. It shot my forearms full of holes. The materials appeared and felt as if they were gnawing themselves deeper into my flesh. I pulled out several pieces of material, including some long spine-like pieces that looked like fish bones. I splatted them out of my tweezers onto my counter top and dug into my flesh for more. I pulled at some white fibers, but they seemed to be holding on with a thousand tenacles. I could only remove a small portion of the fiber, and the rest remain in my forearms to this day. My friends returned from a walk they had taken. I knew that I looked crazy. I scrambled to show them the spine-like objects that I had pulled from my arms, but he materials that I removed from my tweezers had melted in my blood.

Things got crazier and crazier as time passed. It wasn't long before I knew, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that I was being attacked by the forces of hell. I could hear them talking, and I communicated with them on many occasions. They levitated objects in my home, and they manipulated the fibers on my carpet to form words. They shaped aluminum foil to look like demons and monsters, and I was both physically and mentally attacked in a variety of ways. When one of these attacks was at its height it started raining in my office. I don't know whether or not this was a part of the attack, since I sat in the rain and the attack stopped. There's so much more I could tell about this experience. So much happened on so many occasions. During one of these attacks, when I was almost defeated, I picked up my Sword, which is the Word of God, and I started swinging. If your experience is anything like mine, you may have to do the same thing.

Respectfully Yours,
Bugs Alive




Wow, now that was some interesting reading. Yep, you're saving us from a curse. I hadn't ever read that post before and I knew it. How did we get this curse Bugs? Can you give us some insight into that?

I'm done.

Aherah

 
At 1:37 AM, Blogger Smileykins said...

Aaahahaha!! You DUNCE! Do you realize what you just did?!!!
Thank you, for doing it, too!!!

????

 
At 1:43 AM, Blogger Smileykins said...

Do you think showing US OUR OWN TRUTHS is anything but something good? See how b-l-o-c-k-ed that head of your is? We've been telling you, but you are blocked to honesty. It's 100% FOREIGN TO YOU, ABHORAH. You've helped illustrate what Bugsy's delusional experience was like, and we appreciate the publicity!! Aahahaha!!!

 
At 2:18 AM, Blogger Smileykins said...

You have a memory problem, but I patiently told you, repeatedly, when you came here, that there is nothing you can do to tear down people who stand on solid ground. You are AFRAID of our TRUTH. Tall Cotton and I aren't hiding anything. OWN YOUR OWN WORDS. Don't twist them.

Now let me clear this up....

I said: "Or am I reading it was BOTH boys?!"

You said: "No, you’re making things up, again."

*Fool, I don't make things up.

You said: "Your lies are so grand, you might as well say I lit her on fire and told her to run around the house. She was walking at one. She decided to lie on the floor and rub her itchy back on the carpet. I didn’t tell her to do anything...."

*I said, FOOL, I don't make things up!!!

You're a sociopath. That means devoid of conscience, dunce. You say "I" lied???

! + 1 = 2 SONS...read it. It's YOUR WORDS

Re: Morgellons Cult
« Reply #51 on May 9, 2006, 12:24pm »

"Your two-year old son has some sort of strange rash on his chest. The doctor says it is contact dermatitis. It doesn't go away. Then the doctor says it is ringworm, only now this "ringworm" is covering the entire torso of your child who has begun to behave in a spastic manner. When playing shirtless in the backyard you notice these red/blueish raised patches of skin that sparkle in the sun. Weird, you think, but you make no connection to your own skin disorder. Then, at the same age as your first son, your second son, who has some sort of language delay, stops eating dinner, and most foods. He says, "I can't feel good" often. You take him to his doctor who checks for parasites in his stool. Nothing is found; case closed for the doctor. Your son continues to have black diarrhea, a pallor face, and lethargy. Believing that he might have some sort of food allergy, you give him enzymes made for kids. That night he has an allergic reaction, breaking out in hives all over his little body. Two days later, he has a rash on his back. He wakes you up at three in the morning to scratch his back. You apply oil on his skin that you don't further damage it when you notice that he has fibers coming out of his skin too. Later he keeps changing his shirts because, according to him, there are bugs in his shirt..."

"In the meantime, both you and your eleven month old baby daughter have also broken out with fibery rashes. The baby attempts to realize her itchiness by rubbing her back on the carpet like a flea infested dog. You ask yourself over and over again, "how can this be happening?" You feel so desperate, yet you've grown wary of doctors who seem to be twisting what you say to justify a diagnosis of delusional. You stop going to them because, although you are incredibly concerned about the health of your children, you are even more concerned that the doctors may build a case to have your children put into protective custody. You research the internet and so easily discover that Elliot's disease, National United Skin Parasites Association, the Fiber Disease, and Morgellons are all one and the same....."


In this blog, you said:

"Yep, I'm going to hell in a fibery handbasket. FYI Smiles and Tall Fuzz, that's my problem. "

*Your, and your family's problem, you mean. Except you brought your "problem to us" with some kind of perverted, displaced, vengence. And you think you have to announce you're hellbound? You're there now.

Get over us. You need major help.

 
At 2:28 AM, Blogger Smileykins said...

Damnit Linda, you've had a meltdown. Your family just turned their heads completely, apparently, or you were always like this. I've never seen anything like it before.

 
At 2:42 AM, Blogger Smileykins said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
At 6:04 AM, Blogger Smileykins said...

What are you demonstrating, Abhorah? I can retrieve numerous comments from Margellons' blog where I'd told you that we played the game in order to stay there, up to a point. You don't pay any attention whatsoever.

Are you angry because you didn't know that we were both over symptoms of what is being called "morgellons disease"? Damnit, I told you. Oh, but no, it was real disease disease, blah, blah, blah. All that matters is what you say, to hell with listening.

I didn't know what kind of weird place I dropped into. If you weren't the way you are, you would feel the same way about it.

 
At 12:53 PM, Blogger Smileykins said...

I glanced over a few more of your posts Abhorah.

Talk to me.

Talk to me about what, pray tell, you do not undertand. BTW, my political views have not changed, whatever that has do to with anything. I'm not, and never was, into conspiracy theories, if you've misunderstood. I see a bigger picture of the world than that.

I'll be damned if I know WTF you brought this hell of yours here to us for. Spell it O-U-T.

I guess, like I said, this is something society has never seen before, due to it being brought out of the closet and onto the internet, and I don't have a handbook for it. But I'll tell you what, from what I have seen of you, woman, if you aren't possessed, then, your mind snapped somewhere along the way.

I don't bother anyone, and I never have, but when someone crosses me, by gosh, especially without telling me why, like YOU, then what you end up getting from me, you've had coming from me. And I haven't twisted anything. I don't need to.

Your first several days here, you launched into attack on us, without reason. You came here specifically to. I addressed everything you tore into me with, and you kept on, like your buddy Godshammer, tormented at us over something, unleashed and unprovoked.

I directed you to take your misunderstandings and grievances to "our blog"...DOES THAT RING A DAMN BELL???

It must be what I said to begin with, about zero comprehension, like all the morgie people have, but I SAID "get someone to read-our-blog-for-you-and-
translate.

Finish the sentences, and PLEASE ELABORATE:

1. Linda thinks Adapted is a "fraud", because........

2. Linda thinks Bugs Alive is a
"fraud", because.........

I don't give a damn that you think either of us are, I just want to clear your damn head up on the matter, so you can try working through your many issues, because you seem to have pinned ALL of your problems directly onto US in some warped manner.


If you still refuse to comply, I'll go on the only way I know to handle you.

 
At 1:01 PM, Blogger Margellons said...

Smileykins and Aherah, your dispute is only of interest to the two of you. Is it necessary to carry it out on my Blog?

I don't want to have to delete comments, or lock them out. But I don't feel like this protracted back and forth is helpful to anyone. Disagreements over who said what and when and what that indicates are pointless. Personal attacks only serve to polarize positions.

Just say no to flame wars.

 
At 1:23 PM, Blogger Smileykins said...

I agree, and I'm sorry. She came here with a greivance she refuses to address with me so that it CAN BE resolved. I can't save her, I can't change her. I don't want to. She is not mine "to fix".

She owes it to me to tell me what she thinks I ever did to her. She's full of dishonesty, and seeing her own words doesn't have any effect on her, to illustrate she has a problem.

I want resolution with whatever it is, and I have begged her for it. I need resolution when I'm falsely accused. That is what I'm after. Can I get it? It doesn't appear that there's any way to, if she won't face me with it and move on.

I have not wanted to behave in this fashion, and disrupt your blog. She's driven me past a line, in not stating her claim to me. I'm sorry. I can't undo the damage.

 
At 1:40 PM, Blogger Margellons said...

I do not think it can be resolved. So why continue with it?

Just let it go, or argue via email or something.

If it continues, I will delete your posts.

 
At 1:52 PM, Blogger Smileykins said...

Yes sir, I am in agreement with you, and I hate that this has occured.

I invited, and I begged, for Linda to state her grievances, and where to go to do it, providing her ample links, repeatedly. I certainly think that is the appropriate place to work through it.

I know that if somebody could explain things to her, if she had them read our histories about how we'd both had DOP, it would help her, because neither of us hs ever done anything to this woman.

Is it because she thinks she has a deadly disease, and she's mad that she doesn't?

 
At 1:55 PM, Blogger Smileykins said...

Of course, we are not her, though. I just don't get it Margellons. I apologize, deeply.

 

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